Frank is the Jim Jones of the evangelical side of herp keeping, always ready to preach and hand out his Kool-Aid for anybody who is willing to drink it.



Sure, there are merits to what Frank says from time to time, but the hypocrisy of it all is that no matter how much anybody tries to replicate nature, they will ultimately fail to mimic even the smallest percentage of the environment, stimuli and food that these animals will encounter in the wild which ultimately elicits the most natural of behaviors. So regardless of Frank's incessant ranting about natural setups, the best way, if Frank is to have any valid point at all, is to just not keep any pets at all so that they all can revel within the natural world around them because even the most elaborate setup that you try to make as realistic as possible will be a mere fractional imposter that will no more elicit true behaviors than someone who puts ceramic skulls and plastic vines in their vivarium. Case in point, how many people that keep captive born Western Hogs have adults that will feign death? Hatchlings sometimes will do it, but usually only the first couple of days or so. After that, they all become conditioned to being in captivity! However, I've heard of too many instances of wild adults that will play dead all too commonly. It's just the nature of the beast Frank, that captivity, regardless of how natural your setup appeals to you, will still have an adverse effect on the animal's behavior in captivity. Period!



Trust me, I come from the mentality of natural setups as I used to keep expensive exotic Amazonian fish over 20 years ago and my bible back then was a book called The Optimum Aquarium (which I still have although I no longer keep fish). I had a 50 gallon that mimicked most of what is shown in that book, beautiful aquatic plants overflowing out of the tank lit by metal halide lights and filtered with a wet/dry filter as well as a substrate heating system. I spent literally thousands of dollars on my tanks and they were literally works of living art! But the truth is, I had friends and fellow hobbyists that kept some of the same fish that I did and their's were no less healthy than mine and the behaviors were pretty much the same. Of course fish are a completely different animal than reptiles are, but the point still stands.



The thing is, many reptiles are fairly simple-minded animals and can be kept successfully in captivity if you understand and can provide the basics that that particular species needs. Sure, you can go all out and setup the most awesome display in the world and as natural as you can hope to get it, but the truth is, the snakes will rarely notice the difference IF, and I will reiterate this again, their basic needs are met. I've seen people have elaborate setups for their Balls, guess what they do, they just lay in a hide. I've seen awesome setups for GTP's, but what do they typically do, they lie on a branch. Big Burmese within a huge display at a zoo? Yep, they just lie there. Like my aquarium comparison, I've seen fancy big setups for many types of colubrids and they act no differently than those in simple basic setups. So where is the actual scientific proof to the contrary that Frank is right about these animals becoming less active and showing less behaviors if kept in artificial environments especially tubs? I'm willing to bet that there is none, it's just his opinion, nothing less. The one big truth though is that all of these animals become more domestically docile and calm because they are no longer part of the food chain, they are the apex predator. In the wild, these animals will exhibit many behaviors not seen in captivity simple because in the wild, they too are on the menu for some other animal, so many defensive and aggressive behaviors will be exhibited because the real world is far more competitive than we can ever hope of replicating within a domestic capacity. Think about it, while this is a very important reality, it's also just one of many factors that elicit many behaviors in wild animals not found in captive animals.



Frank goes on and on about the lack of behaviors exhibited by us so-called "recipe shoebox" keepers. Well, his assumptions are based on his own prejudice against those of us who do not worship at his alter. Sure, some snakes are kept in such small environments that they exhibit little activity and usually the only excitement they get is either on feeding/cleaning day or when they are being bred, but the truth is, that's not always the case for everybody that keeps their snakes in tubs, it just depends on that particular keeper and what specific type of tub setup they are offering their animals.



For me, even in some of my more simpler tub setups I've witnessed many types of behaviors from the majority of my hognose especially using rabbit pellets as it's a great substitute for burrowing and has more weight than shavings do which forces the snake to use more strength and persistence to burrow into it. However, some will actively burrow beneath them (and you can sometimes see trails when peering through the bottom of the tub) while other individuals show no interest in burrowing and spend most of their time hiding underneath their waterbowl (I used waterbowls that are hollow underneath). Most usually come out and actively search for food when they are hungry. So, on feeding day, that's when you really get a lot of behaviors exhibited, some will leap out of the tub trying to grab the mouse you are trying to put in the tub, some will coil and hiss and sometimes even spray musk at you, some will just look at you calmly until you put the mouse in with some eating it right away, some striking it until they think they've killed it, others will poke and prod the thing for a while, while others might be a bit more shy and wait until you are out of sight or when the lights are turned out. But once they've all eaten, they remain inactive for several days while they quietly digest their meals.



The bottom line reality is, many many behaviors are exhibited in hognose kept in tubs despite Frank's rabid ignorant dialogue to the contrary. Sure, I think it's great that Frank wants to keep his specimens in a far different environment and I respect him for that as well as him sharing his experiences and I've never said otherwise despite his false claims of me saying such things. What I, and apparently many many others, can't stand about Frank is his constant condescension, berating and cowardly labeling and attacking of those of us that choose to do things differently than he does even though he's always complaining that it is everybody else that singles him out for his methods. He's obviously made this claim many times here of which I've challenged him to prove where even one person has talked negatively of his keeping methods and he cannot conjure up any such proof, so that only makes him a delusional liar!



So Frank, I say this to you, I think it's great that you want to incorporate an artificial "natural" setup for your animals and I also think it's of benefit to the community for you to share your experiences which might prove of interest or benefit to others. However, your knowledge is only worth as much as the amount of respect you give to the rest of us. Your sanctimonious attitude actually loses you an audience than gaining you one, and that's a fact from phone calls and emails I've received from people that no longer wish to participate on this forum because of you. Being that you've been here just a short time, I'd say that's quite an accomplishment!



And last but not least...



One gentleman who I never met before until the other day entered into a discussion some of us were having about Frank's disrespect towards other keepers and this is what he said "I know FR... he knows a lot. A WHOLE lot. He's an expert. He's a herpetological genius. But a DOUCHEBAG. And none of the former makes up for the latter."



What else is there to say after that?
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Troy Rexroth

Rextiles

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