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Rextiles
at Fri Feb 15 14:53:14 2013 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by Rextiles ]
Hi Troy, sorry your experience with mice is more about your husbandry then the mice.
You assume too much Frank. I'm not currently having problems with my colonies nor have I for many years. Actually, my colonies have been quite successful and productive now for over 6 years since I changed my methods. And for the record, I've been breeding mice off and on for almost 20 years, so I'm not new to differing methods used to breed mice, I just find that this particular method I now use is far more effective and productive and thought I would share that with those that might be interested.
Never seen an sterile male or found a need to use several males. We also do not see cannibilism. And we have no problem adding or changing individuals in groups.
I never claimed that any of my non-breeding males were actually sterile, I merely inferred that it was a possibility due to non-production of specific groups here and there witnessed over the years.
I think the whole point you seem to totally miss though Frank is that my response is directed at those that are starting off with fresh new colonies, especially in regards to mice that are purchased from pet stores. I've seen far too many people, myself included, that have purchased groups of mice from pet stores and have had problems getting them started. You don't have to look very hard to find those people out there, I used to see it quite frequently when I spent time on CS.com years ago.
The point is, most people buy mice to be used as breeders from pet stores, mostly large chain stores, and many people do have problems getting colonies started. Whether or not that has to do with those mice coming from large chain stores or the local mom & pop stores has yet to be determined, but I will say that the majority of the mice that I've purchased from chain stores were more prone to being problematic than those I bought from independent stores. When I've purchased small groups from chain stores and tried to start them from scratch only using one male, it was really hit and miss. When I've used multiple males in a single colony, my successes improved for the exact same reasons mentioned in my previous post. It's an observation that I made after the many years of doing this and one that I found a possible solution for.
In regards to cannabalism, it usually is a rare event but can and does happen. My observations of this usually stem from young females that might eat their first litter but then go on to never do it again. I would be willing to bet that it happens in everybodies colonies, it's just that most people aren't paying enough attention to really notice it as it happens quite fast and remains are hardly ever left to make notice of. I would say that out of every 200 females, I might get 1 or 2 that might do this, even rarer is that 1 in 1000 rogue female that won't stop, those get culled immediately once they are discovered.
Simply put, you cannot miss, not a day with food or water.
You are preaching to the choir here. I have mine on a watering system and even that requires me checking on it every couple of days or so for either plugged lines or just simply being low. But I agree, rodents need a constant supply of water or food or else that colony will degrade overnight which can also be a major factor for cannabalism as well!
If cared for, small colonies, or large ones(1.3 up to 1.10) are not a problem. Ours are 1.7 in most cages with one row of 1.9.(slighly larger cages)
Again, you assume that I only think that large colonies work and that that is all I do. The reality is, I have 5 colonies, 3 large ones and 2 small ones. My small ones will house 1-2 males and up to 3-5 females depending on what's working with that specific group. However, I was sharing my experience with how much more successful my larger colonies have been. For those that are wanting to get into breeding mice and want to try something that isn't "recipe" like what you are doing, they now have an option in case the "recipe" method you prescribe doesn't work for them.
I would look into your husbandry if your seeing the problems you mentioned.
Like I said, you've assumed too much. I don't normally have these types of problems but those problems can and do exist in every mice colony whether you see/admit it or not. I'm a keen observer and spend quite a bit of time with my animals, so I do notice these things. I'm also not afraid to mention the negative possible aspects of my way of doing things so that I can give people a more informed opinion than those that are afraid to publicly state such short-comings, and trust me, everybody has short-comings when it comes to husbandry, even you Frank whether you are man enough to publicly admit it or not.
Also, do make me the bad guy, we all learn to support our animals, some how, some way. Its a process. Cheers
Here's the deal Frank, was I not kind and helpful to you when you first came here asking questions? Did I not spend my time giving you helpful answers to your questions not only here but when you emailed me privately. Have I not kept the secrets you asked me to keep from those private emails? The truth is, I didn't start out disliking you, I'm not like that, I try to help anybody that asks me for help. But shortly after our communication, you started to stir the pot here on the forum, that's when everything went sour between us. It's odd to me that you've never figured that out.
And that's where you fail as a human being, because you don't know how to ask the real questions, like, "Why was this person so nice to me in the beginning and now they are not, could it have been something I did or said?" If you could ask yourself those questions and be open to the possibility that maybe the problem exists because you created it, then maybe it's a problem you can correct and actually draw more positive energy than negative energy from people.
I've been witnessing all the negativity you bring with you on practically every forum you frequent, it's really quite sad. But what's really sad is that you have the ability to change that but you don't have the strength or character to do so.
I've no doubt that you can be a cool person and that you do possess some insights worth sharing with others but not at the expense of knocking everybody else down so that you can try to rise above them. Unfortunately, that's how you tend to operate Frank. Even in this thread, I make suggestions to someone else about my methods of breeding mice and somehow you find all the negative aspects and try to pinpoint them on me as if I'm always failing at breeding mice while you tell me how successful you are when the truth is, you have no clue about my successes or not, you just knock me down to try to build yourself up.
In regards to this whole "recipe" mentality...
You are always telling people to not be "recipe" keepers, well, I always see you offering your recipes, things that you have found that work for you. Well, if everybody adopted your methods, then they would still be recipe keepers, they'd just be using your recipe instead of someone else's. Don't you see that? Your whole "recipe" argument is actually ridiculous and pointless as anybody that follows someone else's proven methods is now a recipe keeper. The only way out of that trap is to totally invent something new that nobody else has done and even then, anybody that follows in your footsteps will be a recipe keeper. It's a game nobody can win, it's a game you think you can win, it's not!
The irony is that you yourself are a recipe keeper Frank, you use repeated methods over and over for your animals. When you showed that picture of your hognose setup with your "Retes" stack, I laughed my butt off because you've used that same recipe for many different animals, from snakes to monitors, it's like a one-size fits all recipe. You show a comparison picture of a wild animal snug into a rock crevice and then one in your "Retes" stack. Well, your "Retes" stack is really no different than old plywood or pallets lying on the ground, you know, the ones that every herper is always keen to pull up to look for animals underneath? Yep, the exact same thing! Your "Retes" stack is nothing new nor ingenius, you've just taken the idea of putting outdoor scrap wood into a tank, that's all. Nowhere are you even close to mimicking a rock crevice nor do I believe that you got your idea from rock crevices, it's just scrap wood slapped together like found dumped in the wild.
But like I said before, most reptiles don't care one way or another about their surroundings, whether it's an actual rock crevice or scrap wood or a porcelain skull, if they can find a place to snuggle into, they are usually content. If this were untrue, then why do so many people look under sheets of plywood or metal roofing outside to look for herps? If the animal were that picky and wanted something more natural, it has the whole world to choose from, think about it! It's the keepers that try to mimick nature more for themselves than for the animals sake in general, unless of course that animal requires specific care to successfully maintain it within a more natural environment.
What's funny about the whole point I'm trying to make here is that hognose are burrowing snakes and yet based on the pictures you showed, you give yours more places to climb instead of areas to burrow. Yes, hognose will climb, I used to make climbing toys for mine but found that the majority used them more for hiding on the bottom levels probably because physically they are not quite as agile as their other colubrid cousins such as kingsnakes and rat snakes and yet you've chosen to force yours to live in an environment that fits within your recipe of how you choose to keep your animals. If your hognose is content and thriving and the rest of ours are content and thriving, then all of your arguments pertaining to how the rest of us keep our animals have no merit to them.
See Frank, you aren't any different than the rest of us, you just want to think you are but you aren't and that's a cold hard fact!
The bottom line is, like the old saying goes, people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Well Frank, you live in a glass house and you are always throwing rocks. Maybe you need to rethink your strategy and improve your people skills, it will be time more well spent than denigrating people that are just as, if not more so, successful than you are when it comes to husbandry and observation!
Here's the deal Frank, if you want to start over and put aside all of your petty attacks on people and just enjoy in partaking in helpful and respectful conversations, I'm all for that. But that's going to be up to you and only you. If you can do that, we can all get along and make this a much more enjoyable place for discussions. Sound like a plan?
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles
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Of mice and manners... - Rextiles, Fri Feb 15 14:53:14 2013