Frank,

This post is too long winded for me to bite into everything you wrote so I will just address certain points.



FR says:

"None of that has a thing to do with the animals and nature. At a HOGNOSE site, daily available temps, exceeded 150F on anyday that was not cloudy. In special interest, hogs perfered to move out on sunny days. Cloudy days effected the numbers quickly. Again, the active temp range on a hognose site with active hogs was, aprox mid 40's to the 150F range. That is what THEY DO."



Keeping reptiles in captivity has NOTHING to do with them in the wild. There is simply no need to give them all those options of sunny, cloudy, extreme hot, extreme cold. What would your animals get out of all those extreme options over what my animals get with and 80 degree cool end with a basking spot in the mid to high 90's? Please explain...



FR says:

"So I will ask again, how does your cages compare to that? And why do you expect your captives to reflect what is natural to them, when you keep them in a way that is un-natural to them."



It does not reflect much of what they go through. But in captivity, it does not matter because the idea of keeping reptiles in captivity is to eliminate extream conditions so your animals do not fail. Why dont we just throw a few predatory animals in the cages with our hogs to make it super natural? Again, there is nothing natural about keeping these animals in captivity to begin with. Not even the way you keep them.



FR says:

"Also, testing needs to be done to failure, not minimum success. If not done, you really have no idea of what is minimum and what is maximum."



What needs to be tested exactly? Why would I set my animals up to fail when the method at which I keep my snakes has already proven to keep my thriving, feeding, breeding, laying fertile clutches without failure, so on and so forth? If you want to be the Doctor Kevorkian of hognose snakes, thats your bag dude, not mine. I will continue to do what works and has proven to work season after season.



FR says:

"You and others are making assumptions that wild snakes ONLY use the temps you provide, that sir is a false assumption. THey in reality, use temps above and below what you provide."



No one ever made that assumption. You just assume everyone else is an idiot. With that being said, in captivity, there is no reason what so ever to keep them at extremes.



FR says:

"Just a tiny tiny example, I have three WC neonate hogs, all in sweater boxes, they are in my incubator room. It was 84F(middle of the room, cooler by the walls. All three ate scented pinks. about twice a week, I then upped the room to 86F and all three ate unscented pinks and fuzzies, every other day. My adult pair are in conditions where the temps range from the lowest 39F to the mid 150's. My son also has a pair of neonate westerns(albino and het) and they too ate scented until he upped the temps, then moved right to unscented pinks and fuzzies(small ones) "



Well Frank, I have news for you. We see the same trend in cptive born and wild caught hogs when temps are stable. Did you ever think that it may have something to do with the fact that hogs are easily converted to taking unscented rodents? Ofcorse not. You are just too bent on being right. Desparate enough for you to take things we see reguarly and twist it to fit what you want it to mean.



FR says:

"THere are many reasons that small neonates, compromised neonates, may have a narrow range of items, and they are based on ability. Ability to digest, ability to swallow, ability to kill. And a possible ability to defend yourself. I always wondered how stupid it would be for a neonate snake to crawl into a wild rodent nest. Without question, temps effect those abilities and the ability to escape, which is of prime importance to wild snakes. So yes, some individuals, may require training to get past the danger zone."



So what about large, uncompromised neonates that follow trend? At the temps some keepers keep their hogs, there is no reason for them not to be aggressive feeders. There are also no danger zones in captivity.



The point is, Captivity on any level strays far from the wild as it should. There is no reason to provide our captives with the same extremes they encounter in the wild.

[ Show Entire Thread ]