Hi Again, first and foremost, I have said all along, when I offer help, its for those who want it or need it. Not for folks that don't have a problem or don't want it.



What is key to hatching eggs is temps and humidity. What is key to raising neonates is temps and humidity. Its the same. only with neonates, the ability to gain more heat helps with a wider range of tasks. When taken out of the hatching conditions, there are normally placed in much lower humidity and also have no way to combat dehydration. Normally in nature, they prevent dehydration by staying in FULL CONTACT with a base neutral humidity. Which means in areas(home shelters) that prevent loss or gains in body fluid levels.



I talk about the snake, not the keepers.



Some here, have the "recipe" fine tuned and do not make mistakes. Which is fine. Others have problems. And/or may not know, the actual reason/s.



pesonally, I cheat, I like to setup reptiles in a way that its not about me making mistakes, as I will make them, hahahahahahaha. I like them to do the work. Hey call me lazy.



Again I will say, when I entered the world of hogs, I was very surprised to see problems, that are so curable. Like nesting and basic feeding problems. Egg binding seens fairly common. There is the common approach of treating and not preventing problems.



On the subject of feeding, you and others, rationalize all manner of reasons why your captives are picky, you make up possible reasons that relate to nature. When in reality, in nature they eat doorknobs or anything even resembling their prey. They have to, or they are dead and gone. We could talk about how it really works in nature.



ALso when reading questions from beginers, the answers where not answers, there was a lot of, it could be this, or maybe that, or its possible its something else. THe maybe's the could be's, the its possible, show a lack of understanding of the animals. It does not mean, some folks are not successful. I stated all along, you guys have produced GREAT animals. From reading this forum and recent books, there appears to be a basic lack of understanding of hognose or colubrids in general.(appears is a key word)



Also, I do not mention names as I do not pay attention to names of keepers and its not about a single keeper. Overall, as much success as you guys have had, there seems to be a lot of mystery.



Of course there are many approaches to doing just about anything. Colubrids are an easy subject, as far as reptiles go. They have been bred for many decades. I started line breeding and producing morphs, in the early seventies(many species).



There is this mystery to me about captive breeding, and it starts as simply as, the statement, I bred my X species. Actually, hopefully, they bred eachother, you the keeper did not bred them. They actually did what was natural to them. You the keeper only supported it.(the definition of husbandry, to support)



Many keepers, want control and to feel like they accomplished something. So they use methods that allows the keeper to make all decisions. Sweater box or recipe keeping is a great example of this. If you look at it, all that is natural to the captive is taken away. In extreme cases, there is nothing natural left. No dirt, no anything these animals can recognize as normal. None the elements that allow them to actually make decisions. Everything is done for them.



Please take a moment and think about that. How would you feel if all you understand is taken from you. All feels, smells, materials etc. Consider, there is no plastic in the lives of hogs in nature.



Then there is the approach of letting the animals do what they were designed to do. Or as much as you can.



One is all about people, the other is about animals(doesn't matter what kind)



I am odd, but these two approaches do not have to be seperate and in reality, there is no way to seperate them.



Consider, these animals have been growing up, pairing up, breeding and producing, since before civilized humans EXSISTED ON THIS PLANET. Yet they are treated as if they are incapable of making the simplist of choices.



Consider in nature, they obtain parasites with every meal, and have no problems, yet in captivity, you HAVE to treat them if one is suspected. In nature, they can heal from the most horrible of injuries, yet in captivity, they are prevented for a pin hole injury. I have found two individual snakes in nature, that healed and survived their backs broken in SEVEN places. Healed without a vet or any medicine. I found a greyband that had its back broken in three places and in two of those places, was cut in half and only held together by skin, and it healed and grew up. Without treatment.



I have found many varanids that survived burns that covered over 75% of their body, yet in captivity, a small burn often kills them. Looking at wild box turtles, you find a common scaring, where they were hit by cars, having the side connections broken and healed. Hit by cars. Yet in captivity they die for no reason????????????? Are you starting to get my point????? These animals have abilities and they are Extremely good at them. Let me think, they reproduce in all manner of conditions, hot, cold, dry, wet, droughts, floods, etc



In nature their immune system and ability to heal is exceptional, but not so in captivity?????



Yet, their natural abilities are ignored.



I commonly hear, but FR, we can never duplicate nature, so we don't. Dude, thats a cop out, Thats A or Z thinking. No one ever said, all or nothing. Use what you can. And without question, use what helps the health and welfare of the animal. They have the ability to take care of hognose, as they have done that for millions of years, and without humans to help them.



Ok, let me stop this rant and end with this thought.



You try reading this forum, or recent books on hognoses, then compare them to hognose in nature. I mean, look at the pictures of their habitat, then read what is unique to their habitat, then look at how their kept. Those are only a chapter apart, there is not one thing in the husbandry part that reflects the actual snake or its habitat, or its abilities.



If was was to be honest, folks seem to be all about morphs, and forgot the base, the hognose part. The hognose is before the morph. Morphs are about people, hognose are a animal. What about the hognose?



The keepers who want to fight me, must be only about morphs, as all they want is to make it about people and not the animals.



Gregg, I thank you for making it about the animals. And there is nothing wrong with morphs. In reality, morphs are hognose with a funny color and pattern(none phenotypic)



p.s. I just got back from hog habitat(the field) looking at captivity and nature will make a person crazy. Its about what I do not understand. I flat do not understand why they have to be so different.

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