Hi Gregg, I think I get in trouble here trying to be nice, instead of just saying it like it is, which also gets me in trouble.



So here goes, That method was done commonly in the late seventies, don't actually understand why its new now. It was a first step towards more stable nesting.



What your doing is GOOD and without question better then most.



Its a step in the right direction. But there is more.



More is taking it farther and then seeing if you can recieve better results. The question is, what is better results.



The problem with many is, There is no standard of results. A hatched egg is good. consider one hatched egg in nature leads to exstintion.



Theres a silly point, and that is potential. Theres genetic potential, that is the range of what that animal can do genetically, and its about all things within that individual snake, like growth, reproduction, longevity, and more, those are the ones we normally care about.



So, with reproduction, Each species, each individual, as a lifetime potential and a yearly potential. Even a clutch to clutch potential.



We all should know the minimum, ZERO. But what is the maximum and what is high and what is low and what is "normal" etc. The reproductive effort, in fact, reflects actual support. The closer to their potential, the better the support.



The problem I have here is, folks base normal on captive middle of the road conditions. So I ask, how is that normal? In nature, they always attempt to reach their maximum. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, and often they do not make it to next year. WHich makes your potential much more important on a yearly basis.



So whats the potential for a clutch of hognose, 0 to 35 or so????



In captivity, there should not be those limitations that prevent maximum. But there is. In fact, in most cases we provide the least we can, not the most. Or even average?



Sorry, dang it, so where does your method fit with that in mind?



The problems are about us not thinking the animals have needs or how those needs come about. We make it about our needs.



Do snakes in nature lay their eggs in lite? no they don't thats easy. Do they lay their eggs two inches in the ground, no, much deeper, but there are limited exceptions. How deep do they lay them? and why?



I could and normally go on and on, the point is, they normally lay deeper in the ground, they do so because it works, it works because the closer to the surface you go, the less stable it is. Both with temps and humidity.



The point is, your tubs are shallow. So thats what they get, hey? no wait, they do make deeper tubs, but dang, they don't fit into the exact spot. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm did anyone ever say they HAD TO, or is that just some human patterning thing? There are even deeper tubs and deeper then that. hmmmmmmmmm



While I am ranting, why do people think a nest box is a box that goes inside a cage. Particularly when the cage is smaller then a nesting area. I am feeling a bit like George Carlin. You know, all your stuff in a big box, then have a smaller box(luggage) then smaller yet.



The point is, nesting in nature is big. Its bigger then our normal box. The reason is simple, there must be enough suitable mass around the eggs to make sure the eggs survive for as long as it takes to hatch them. It also must be deep, hidden enough that a one legged wookpecker cannot get to them.



Then they nest in places that the neonates have a good chance of survival. The right conditions and prey available.



So I ask, do the snakes know you are going to take the eggs and put them in an incubator and know your going to feed their offspring?



So what most folks are doing is forcing the females to abort their normal natural survival instints. So I ask, do you think that all that is helpful to the animals to reach their potential??????? hahahahahahahahaha



Gregg, your doing great, but is that all there is to it? I will ask you that because you are good enough to do that, which means you care.



Most folks are happy to hatch an egg and if that is good enough for them, then so be it. But it surely is not about the animals, as they, the animals, want to reach their full potential and will do whatever it takes to accomplish that. All we need to do is support their efforts.



Thanks again Gregg, your doing great. I do not mean to be offensive, I only want folks to think. And that thinking part is to decide what are restrictions placed by us, in the way we think. Then compare that to what they actually do.



In your case, its far better them what most do, but how does it compare to what the animals actually do. Consider, what they do in nature is their normal. Then consider, what they actually do is based on what is normal to them. Not what is normal to us. Consider, what restricts them in nature is normally nutrition based(finding enough food) Everything else is a realitive constant. Of course in dryer areas like deserts, water is also a variable. Best wishes and thanks for putting up with me

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