Posted by:
FR
at Sat May 11 10:17:51 2013 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by FR ]
This new idea is hmmmmmmmmmm not new. In fact, thats why I get into fights here. Its old, in fact, about 40 years old. And yes, If you read back, I stated a seperate box is what IS REQUIRED to do it properly. Its what I have been saying.
The problem is, colubrids are EASY. If you put them in a cage with nothing but a water bowl, they will wait until they cannot wait then lay the eggs in the water bowl. But its stressful to the female, and bad for the eggs.
Lets skip foreward a few decades. Nesting was known and how to avoid poor nesting stress is also known and for decades.
The next problem is, the wave of rack system keeping. Which eliminates the ability to learn from the animals. The reason, you do not see it, they are hidden from the keeper. So it became, a series of steps, the keeper does this that and the other thing and its all good. Oh except if theres a problem, then its the reptiles fault because so and so(the expert) said, do this and that.
What happened was, learning stopped and went backwards. It has become a people event. If you want to know something, ask someone else. Why, because you cannot ask the real expert, the snakes, because they are hidden from you.
The snakes are a bible, yet keepers do not open their boxes and read the bible, they ask some guy, what did the bible say? Thats what is happening.
Also, the snakes have been nesting for millions of years, which is longer then the 40 I mentioned. Yet, folks overlook the importance of nesting. Birds do it, reptiles did it first.
The next next problem is, folks do not know how to think outside the box. hmmmmmmm not figuratively, literally. They seem stuck inside the rack system. So if they are going to do it. Its got to FIT WITHIN THE RULES, and the rack system rules(which is nothing about snakes)
The good part, like beardies, Hogs are not difficult, in fact, they are easy as far as snakes go. And that is also the problem, if they were difficult, the problem would not exsist.
So, as Gregg is reporting, keepers can have their cake and eat it to, and if done OK, the snakes do not eat their eggs. So yes, it can be done in a rack, deeper boxes. But is done far better outside the rack mindset. Deeper is better. But hey, hogs are easy. Thank goodness. Some snakes are not so easy.
Take varanids, they do not play this silly game. which is why they are not mass produced. Nesting is either right or the female is dead. And for most folks, right is inconvenient.
So yes, doing it right for hogs is a tiny bit inconvenient. But can be done in a rack system so inconvenience is minimal.
But what about the snakes? is it really about convenient?
These pictures were taken decades ago. New ones coming soon.
What drove me off the deep end is, I got into hogs and did my normal research. Only to find people publishing books and had pictures of hognose abortions(to uncontrolably drop eggs), as nesting. it gave me a stomach acke, seriously, it made my stomach hurt. I naively thought we as keepers were past that. To see abortions published as success is BAD/WRONG/HORRIBLE, etc etc.
Then I came here and saw the same thing. Again, stomach acke.
So for better or worse, I got the ball rolling and thank god there was Gregg, as he took it and placed it with todays keeping(blind box keeper mentality) Thank you Gregg.
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RE: Expanding on hognose laying box ideas... - FR, Sat May 11 10:17:51 2013