I know *you* don't have trouble telling conservative from liberal bias, just like *I* don't have any trouble doing the same. The problem comes from the fact that your list and mine would bare little resemblance. I'm really surprised that this is not obvious - even to you.



Do you really not understand?



Yes, I obviously understand what you are saying, it's quite simple. You don't seem to understand what I am saying. If we both honestly try that experiment, and we both come up with similar results, you can be fairly sure that the media is biased! If, for instance, I find the news is pro-liberal 75% of the time and pro-conservative 25% of the time, and you find that the news is pro-liberal 51% of the time (or more) and pro-conservative 49% of the time (or less), even though our views of what exactly is liberal and what is conservative might be different, we both still come to the same conclusion that the news is pro-liberal more than it is pro-conservative, and thus biased. If 100 people do this same experiment (50% being liberal and 50% being conservative), and at the end of the experiment, 99 say the media is pro-liberal and 1 does not, wouldn't that prove it to you? How about if 51 of those 100 said it was pro-liberal? That would prove it to me! The broadcast news is so lopsided, that even someone with liberal leanings should be able to see the bias, if they honestly asses the situation. I could easily see that when the republicans were going after Clinton, that story was pro-conservative. And the people who were claiming that it is OK to lie under oath if it is just about sex were pro-liberal.



When 2 people recount a crime to a police officer, the things they agree on are most likely true and things they don't agree on are either somewhere in the middle, or only one person is telling the truth. Same thing here. If most people who do the experiment come up with the same results, you can be pretty sure that that is the case, even though they have different views. Their views become irrelevant if they come up with the same facts/results.



I asked you to explain how you tell the difference - you came back with suggestions about videotape and digital watches: brilliant.



Since its "easy" to tell the difference, would you please explain how? I know you gave an example, but that doesn't explain your technique - just provides an example. What we need, if we are going to pursue this fascinating research is a way to tell liberal bias from conservative.



How many different ways do I have to ask that question?



First, when the news spends 5 minutes showing and interviewing antiwar protesters, and asks many of them their opinion of the war, and they show this on the network news night, after night, after night, from many different cities, and they don't spend a single second of air time asking a single person who supports the war why they do so, that is biased. Just because they put in a 5 second blurb that most people support the war, doesn't mean they have undone the shaping of peoples opinions by those 5 minute pro-liberal clips every night. Especially when you consider that there are more people who support the war than do not. They should have at least an equal amount of coverage asking people who support the war, why they do so. Going by percentages, they should have more pro-war interviews than antiwar. Yet, you almost never see any of these pro-war interviews on the news. (Gasp!-You don't think they might be editing them out because they are biased do you?) If you can't see bias in that, you are blind. I am sure I have seen many dozens, if not hundreds, of people interviewed by the major networks that are antiwar and not a single one that told why they were for the war. (again, on broadcast news, yes, I have seen supporters on Fox News, but not on ABC, CBS, NBC.--there might be one or two out there, but their numbers come nowhere close to that of the antiwar interviews). If are unable to see that bias, even though you have liberal views, you are simply not being honest. Measuring the time the news spends on pro-liberal issues vs. pro-conservative issues just makes this bias easier to quantify.-That is all I was saying regarding the VCR. If the news spends all, or most, of their time only telling one side of a story, or one political viewpoint, when most people support the other side, that is biased.



Now, there is a far higher percentage of people that are antiwar that are democrats than there are that are republicans. There is also a far higher percentage of pro-war republicans than there are pro-war democrats. Most republicans in office support Bush and this war, while most democrats in office are speaking out against it and against Bush. Can't we agree that going to this war is a pro-conservative position and the protests against it are pro-liberal? Even though there are a few conservatives against the war and a few democrats for it, we should be able to objectively see these political positions. If we can't agree on that, then one of us is not being truthful. (I think the vast majority of people would) Then, any news stories that show the war as not going well (when it has been the fastest, lowest casualty war of this size in history, with none of the prewar concerns occurring) are pro-liberal biased. There's nothing wrong with telling the truth about the deaths of our soldiers, but not giving at least equal time to all the amazing successes is biased. If you tell of soldiers getting killed night after night, and you don't mention the many hundreds of patrols that went fine night after night, you are biased. In the same respect, if you show only successes and no losses, then you are being conservative biased.





Second, here is the technique I use. There are basic values that make people conservatives or liberals. They consider themselves part of that group because they agree with that group most of the time. If you don't know what those values are, now we have a problem!



For instance, I am an atheist, but I understand that most republicans are religious. I don't have to believe in god in order to understand this fact. I agree with republican ideas and values the vast majority of the time. When the ACLU or some other group tries to eliminate voluntary prayer or any religious act from a government office or a public place, I can easily see that it is a pro-liberal group doing so, and a pro-conservative group fighting them. My beliefs are irrelevant. Most conservatives understand that not letting the government establish a religion is completely different from the zero tolerance stance of total separation of church and state that most liberal groups take.





Let's see some other subjects here and how I would rate them.



legalizing drugs-pro liberal

legal abortions-pro liberal

welfare increases-pro liberal

pro environmental causes-pro liberal

more taxes-pro liberal

more govt. services-pro liberal

no school vouchers-pro liberal

antinuclear power-pro liberal

no drilling in Anwar-pro liberal

anti-death penalty-pro liberal

more gun laws-pro liberal

pro-union-pro liberal





more money for defence-pro conservative

less taxes-pro conservative

pro business-pro-conservative

school vouchers-pro conservative

drilling in Anwar-pro conservative

pro-death penalty-pro conservative

pro nuclear power-pro conservative

no more gun laws-pro conservative



You might rate these slightly different, but if you rate them substantially different, you are either a conservative or I am a liberal!



We might not agree 100% of the time on all these classifications, but are you still unable to see the differences here? The position that the entire group takes is that groups position, period. If most liberals support abortion, then abortion is a pro-liberal issue, your personal position is irrelevant. That is very easy for me to see. If you can view the news using your parties position, (not your personal position) and rate the stories based on this, you should get an accurate media bias test. If you can't rate the news stories you see without using your personal position, your test will not be accurate. If you don't know your political party's position on most issues, I suggest you either change parties or educate yourself about your party's positions.





Rodney

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