it really is an effort to engage in some productive discussion : )



so to address the responses given...



certainly we must theorize under captive conditions. but saying that there are no bathtubs in the wild, therefore having blow dryers makes sense, actually, makes no sense. there is plenty of water, humidity, and moisture in the wild, and still no artificial drying machines, and still the animals do very well.



failure to provide a microclimate, or failure to provide a cage that allows for the animal to have choices, providing all the tools necessary for a healthy and productive life (and allowing for such a simple failure as "tail rot", is the failure of the keeper, and of the hobby.



when we first decided to tackle the Uro breeding project, it was because we were reflecting on our success with monitor breeding, and extrapolating that theory and practice out onto another desert lizard. it just seemed like a very simple step. monitor breeding was horrible 15 years ago, and i see the same misunderstandings in Uro husbandry that we saw with monitors way back when.



Uros are Afrikan lizards. they are not super special or super unique, they are easily kept if you just understand their needs, and can provide the proper tools for them to do their natural jobs.



the primary tools are temperatures, nutrition and diet, and a substrate medium that allows for them to achieve life events. simple life events like feeding, hiding, sleeping, and temperature regulation, and more complicated life events like breeding, nesting, and egg laying.



looking at the struggles of Uro breeders to have any type of positive success, you see the same problems that the monitor world has.



folks can't get a good "microclimate" in the cages because of poor setup. now, we don't have perfect setups for monitors or Uros by any means, but i think we do well with our approach. the setups allow for a daytime temp gradient of 75-150 degrees, mnay hide spots at a wide range of temps, and a diggable, burrowable, Uro-favored substrate that allows and encourages production of their OWN burrows (which can be to whatever depth, design, and temp that they prefer, as they are the ones to create them).



when you limit Uro activity by restrictive cage design, you are limiting paths to success. seeing a Uro dig endlessly at the corner of the cage, through an inch of bird seed, sand, or other lousy substrate, and your only thought being "oh, how cute!" is a failure of the keeper.



the Uros, like all other reptiles, are able to communicate with us as keepers through behavior. that digging behavior is the animals way to try and communicate to the keeper that hey, "i need something to dig in over here!" duh.



wild, captive, or otherwise, digging and burrowing is an ESSENTIAL part of a Uros programmed genetic code. lack of digging resources is an extreme stress on the animals mental state, and to me, an obvious reason that so many captive Uros do so poorly.



(poor analogy) you can't bring home a puppy, throw him in a caged of pool, and expect the animal to adapt to an aquatic lifestyle, no matter how much you love fish. the dog needs basic (and domestic, fortunately) needs met, and a 100% wet, soggy, swimming dog, is going to be one miserable dog.



reptiles don't thrive because of stresses in their environments. poor caging, poor diet, poor choice in cagemates, etc.



monitor keepers fail to keep thriving animals, or have successful breeding groups, because they ignorantly (lack of knowledge) fail to provide the proper setting. they are ignorant to social interaction with their groups (and the fact that it is 1000 times easier to start with a group of babies, as opposed to a group of unfamiliar adults). they are ignorant to the temperature requirements of their animals (fail to provide a wide enough, usable temp range).



and so amazingly significantly, they are ignorant in their choices of substrates! a lizard substrate does SO MANY important things!



monitor breeders fail to get good breeding because of poor substrate choices. they fail to get good eggs because of poor substrate choices.



the lizards must recognize the substrate as usable for many different uses. digging and burrowing are important. for breeding, nesting is monumental. a monitor will not drop good eggs into a bad substrate if it is at all avoidable. most often they hold good eggs internally, until they can't hold them anymore (at which point they are now bad eggs) and then they give up and drop all that effort, time, and resources out like last week's trash. if an ignorant keeper can get 2 eggs out of 20 laid to be good, they feel successful (?) and oftentimes don't stop to reflect and analyze as to why the other eggs in the clutch, or the whole clutch, is no good.



a lizard may not breed at all if it simply doesn't recognize its environment as conducive to successful reproduction. breeding and laying are cycles that are enormously draining on a female, and only ideal conditions can keep her in the best of health throughout this process.



you may try like hell to breed your Uros, but they will fight you all the way if you are not providing them the tools they need. and they win that fight : )



the failure of monitor breeders SOOOOO mirrors the failure of Uro breeders! good lizard knowledge is GOOD LIZARD KNOWLEDGE, and you can intelligently apply the good knowledge to a wide range of species because it is not species specific so much as based on lizard theory, and it is applicable to Blackthroat monitors (Afrikan), Peachthroat monitors (Indo), Ackie monitors (Australian), Water monitors (Sumatran), Collared Lizards (America), Gilas (America), and even Uros (whoa, back to Afrika). take it even further, and it is applicable to snakes (that's a whole 'nother forum : )



the substrate/soil problem is no easy one to solve. i can't tell folks what brand of soil to buy. i wish it was that easy : ) all i can tell them is to try different types, many soils and dirts DON'T WORK, you have to find for yourself one that does. it has to dig well, burrow well, hold moisture well, and the animals have to recognize it as usable, and actually put it to use : )



so, what to do....



keep a few basic things in mind-



our lizard cages range from 3 ft for smaller species to 10 feet wide for larger species, but have 2 ft of soil, a wide temperature range, wood stacks that provide hiding and basking at many different temp ranges, limited ventilation (which prevents excessive evaporation, an enemy, not a friend), and no screen tops (or with screening blocked off, evaporation=beef jerky machines!).



(soil allows for breakdown of fecal material. we change out soil, maybe once a year, and not even 100%. birdseed, millet, plain sand, those do not allow for a breakdown, and in the case of substrates like birdseed, they can foster bad bacterial growth, and worse yet, encourage the animal to actually re-ingest fecal material that is mixed in with the seed. that is just a tangent type note/thought that did not make it into the above ramblings : )



for those who can accept a challenge, and for those who would be interested in improving the health and "happiness" of their Uro, try a single setup with a good soil, and great temps. you might not nail it on the first incarnation. but you can tweak it and change it easily to get close to where you want to be.



if you can't find a good diggable soil in your backyard or local forest or streambed, try our Home Depot mix of Topsoil (no additives), play sand, and vermeculite, in a 50/25/25 mix. we have used that store bought mix very successfully in the past.



i can "guarantee" this- once you setup a lizard to allow for it to burrow, thermoregulate, and generally thrive, you will never look back, and never return to a substandard setup. seeing an animal thoroughly use and enjoy a good setup is so rewarding, it really makes it all worthwhile.



and hopefully, in the future, dozens and dozens of Uro keepers will get the picture and we will start to see breeding success, and the wide availability of high quality, healthy, captive bred Uro babies of all types.



in the meantime, i am just hoping that more than 1 or 2 people take the time to read all of this : )



sorry if it meanders, and let me know if we can pursue this further, i just hammered this all out off the top of my head : )



thanks!
-----
robyn@proexotics.com



Pro Exotics Reptiles

[ Show Entire Thread ]