thanks for the follow up and support : )



where are you from Gromph? that is an interesting name, nothing like Joe Smith : )



regarding your post...



certainly our setups are breeder-style setups, not real visual, not real decorative (externally) but they accomplish the same goals that you should have in a pet setup, and that is ideal health for your animal. the only key difference may be size (perhaps related to the size of the group, say 5 animals versus 1) or breeing plans.



we are still new to the Uros, but as i have explained in the past, we have experience with other lizards. i think it is largely the same, especially from a theory standpoint.



in the monitor world we have seen 10 successive generations of animals raised in this fashion, with terrific fast growth, breeding potential at one year, and lots of reproduction and life events. thousands and thousands of animals. healthy ones. (i am referring to the most successful monitor breeders doing 10 generations of a monitor line, we have done 3 and 4 ourselves)



in a decades' time, we STILL see great healthy animals that have lived this life, there is no indication of this type of husbandry being "hard" on them at all.



there is no "secret" to it, it isn't like we are shooting them with steroids to get some abnormal, super result, we are simply trying to MAXIMIZE their own natural potential, let them do what they are capable of, to the best of their abilities.



now, you don't have to match our growth 100% (or 120%), but even 80% would be better than 10 or 20%. (i have no idea what your particular growth is Gromph)



one of my main points in all these posts is that current accepted Uro husbandry "standards" (like you find on caresheets) is woefully inadequate. it is actually hampering the progress, growth and health of the animals!



it is not like the Uro have "gears" and we are in fifth, while so many folks are putting along harmlessly in first. but rather, this "putting" along is actually just barely keeping the animals alive! i think it is punishment, not patience, that the Uros are being subjected to.



like i said, achieving 80% of our growth i think would be acceptable, but you are talking about folks that have babies and juveniles adding single digit gram growth per month! that is ridiculous, and something is obviously wrong and inadequate. and when i look at how folks set up their animals, as someone experienced with keeping and breeding lizards, it is easy to see the problems, and easy to point out the hang ups that cause such slow, or non-existant growth.



i want to talk and exchange about THRIVING Uros, but we are still stuck on talking about NOT KILLING Uros.



that slow and steady growth is not a "pace" that is healthy, rather it is a forced situation because the animals lack access to the tools they need. temps, hydration, security, food, etc. they grow slow because their metabolisms are barely moving, which is tied into all sorts of other problems like lack of appetite, stress, and lack of a proper setup.



i would guess that your animal is moving along slow and steady because that is ALL your setup allows for. you said you use a dry sand (among other aspects of your setup) and i know what a dry sand does, and how it contributes to poor growth. it is one thing to provide all the tools and let the animal make the choices, and quite another to limit access to tools (food, humidity, temps, substrate, burrows, etc) and restrict the animal's progress.



try and challenge your own setup like Peter has done. do one simple rubbermaid type setup with some good diggable soil, an elevated basking spot with great temps, and see how your animals react. i would bet that once you see the two setups side by side, you would not want to return to your former standard.



once you see animals thrive, really thrive, and achieve healthy life events, you won't turn back.



one last note on breeder vs. pet setups. just because you are keeping a pet, with no intention to breed, DOES NOT give you a pass to keep the animal poorly. regardless of what we knew when we acquired the Uros, it is our responsibility as pet owners to provide for them in the best way possible.



you can't say "oh, that is too hard, i don't get the soil thing" (with only a week's worth of effort) because you have CHOSEN a desert lizard for your pet. YOU (the pet owner) made the choice, MEET ITS NEEDS! you can't just default into keeping it like your favorite leopard gecko or cornsnake and be done with it, ya know?



i can't buy a pony, and then keep it in the spare bedroom, the Simpson's already tried that, and look what happened to them
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robyn@proexotics.com



Pro Exotics Reptiles

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