Hi mate



>>Dr. Fry, on your website you mentioned getting cobra-type venom from ratsnakes. What species was this? Have you ever done studies with our NA rats (pantherophis)? What did you find?

>>



We looked at a pretty large amount of snakes, including representatives from as many of the families of 'colubrids' as we could. It appears that the common N. American ancestor of the clade that contains such snakes as Lampropeltis/Pantherophis/Pituophis underwent a secondary loss of the venom and reverted back to the more primative constricting condition. This is not unprecendented. Within the highly venomous elapids for example, two lineages of sea snake have independently begun the process of becoming non-venomous, they feed exclusively on fish eggs and have greatly atrophied venom glands and tiny fangs.





>>Now the venomoid issue, I agree that hacking the glands out of a snake to accomidate a novice that shouldn't have it is wrong but one of the main defenses of the antivenomiod crowd is that crotilids rely on there venom to such an extent that they simply can't digest prey with out it. To me this seems a little extravigant, snakes are generally an adaptible thing. Do they truly rely on envenomation completly for digestion or can they make due without it.



Predigestion is an interesting issue. I have seen even vipers, which do use the venom for predigestion, that we devenomised that did not have any apparent health problems, growing as rapidly as still venomous clutch mates. In captivity, most venomous snakes are fed dead prey and many do not even bother to envenomate anymore so predigestion is not as crucial of an issue. WIth the venomoid snakes, it comes down to two things: an emotive reaction about the snakes losing their 'mojo' and a very real concern regarding pain and suffering.



Cheers

Bryan
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry

Deputy Director

Australian Venom Research Unit

University of Melbourne



www.venomdoc.com

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