Posted by:
Thamnophile
at Thu Feb 26 23:11:20 2004 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by Thamnophile ]
BB,
I had thought of the falconer's model as well, partially because I know one, and sometimes dream of becoming one myself.... but there are some major differences, that would not apply to all herps...
If you are talking about using the falconer's model to breed protected native species, say, the SF garter (ok, so I'm partial ), then yes, it's a great comparison.
The permits, apprenticeships, and inspections required would be useful in regards to breeding *protected* native herps. For that matter, the same could be done for *protected* native passerine birds, except for that whole Migratory Bird Act thing. It's a similar type issue, telling wc from cb, except with the MBA it's illegal to possess the bird/parts no matter whether that bird/feather you possess was collected off the forest floor or captively bred (of course the law was designed to stop people killing passerine birds for use on ladies' hat's etc. etc.....)
But I digress! 
For non-protected herps, the falconer's model won't work. Breeding corns and ball pythons is closer to breeding cats or dogs than anything else. No permits, apprenticeships, or inspections. And I might point out, by and large, no problems with credibility with officials. The ones breaking humane laws, or breeding vicious dogs are dealt with, but it does NOT tarnish all dog and cat breeders OR keepers. Why do all herpers have tarnished images with the "officials" because of the actions of a few? Sounds like a general misperception, lack of knowledge, or prejudice against reptiles to me. And as I always say - *Education Is The Key*.
I've read all of your posts, and that's a major effort .... some issues have been raised. Now, I'm not going to reread all of your posts to find specific or exact examples or statements... but don't take offense at the following:
Sometimes you say "we herpers", sometimes "you herpers". Sometimes you say, total ban on all wc, sometimes you agreed with me, for example. You said at one point that you used the name Big Brother, because you are here "yanking our chains", then you said it's because of your anonymously "official" position.... You throw around all of this extremely varied experience, degrees, etc.(valid or not) to establish your credibility, then you use it to "threaten" people on this board. You've implied that your superiors don't know that you're posting here, and you'd be in trouble if they did. Then you've said that you're superiors weren't happy that you said as much as you have, implying that you're here in some sort of professional capacity, say "infiltrating the herpers", but you just said too much. Which is it?
Basically, we hope that everyone here is what they say they are - most everyone uses their real name, and doesn't purposely keep themselves secret - granted maybe some, maybe even wildlife officials, use a false persona.... Maybe you would have been safer to do THAT! LOL, basically, don't take it too hard when people don't trust or believe you - you give us every reason NOT to, and no reason TO BELIEVE YOU!
While I personally, see at least SOME validity to SOME of your ideas, many aren't going to even CONSIDER what such a shadowy "pseudo-official" has to say. You have generated a lot of legitimate discussion here, both good and bad, so perhaps some of your agenda has been accomplished. I'm sure the discussion will continue!
Lisa
I thought about this a lot last night, and I was wondering if anyone has ever considered the falconers model! Falconers, unlike WE herpers, have conducted successful captive propagation programs of endangered (e.g. peregrine falcon) species for use by other falconers and for re-release into the wild. Granted birds do not suffer from the same kinds of localized genetic effects that herps are susceptible to, and they are endotherms so were comparing apples to lettuce here, but it is the only model for a successful program that I can think of that we can use as a pattern of sorts for our own CB program. Of course the biggest difference is that you have to be licensed to own a falcon of almost any kind, and in order to get that license you have to go through an apprenticeship where you must pass tests on your knowledge of the proper care of the animals and you must also pass inspections of your facilities and care on a regular basis making corruption very difficult (in other words the falconers have some credibility with the authorities, which I keep preaching for here). For more information check out the largest and I think the best organized of the falconry clubs, the California Hawking Club, at http://www.calhawkingclub.org/
Anyway, I just thought their model might provide food for thought for this discussion.
Big Brother
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 RE: Falconer's model... - Thamnophile, Thu Feb 26 23:11:20 2004
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