This is an interview that was made about 4 hours ago over MSN with a german journalist who wanted to make a story for a german newspaper.

It's full og typos, hard to read and rather long but it should give you a reasonable idea about what things are like over here.

It is unedited, tho, a part is missing due to a PC crash I experianced.



Regards

obeligz





obeligz sier:

Hi Sorry.

obeligz sier:

My PC crashed.

obeligz sier:

I hope I haven't kept you waiting.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

no problem, cause my father had to leave for a very short time. but he´ll be back soon.

obeligz sier:

oki.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

just to sum up again: the reasons are the "danger" of a salmonella "invasion" and the "fact" that exotic animals can´t be kept in a good way. it has nothing to do with the reproducing in nature, which could have bad effects on the native fauna and flora. is that correct? (in norway it would anyway be pretty hard for most herps to survive i guess...

obeligz sier:

well..

obeligz sier:

Here are the formal arguments.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

can you tell me which other countries forbid herps and for what reasons? you mentioned hawaii i guess, and there the reason is the reproducing problem, isn´t it?. ok, i wait.

obeligz sier:

Animal preservation.

Norwegian givernment fears that by allowing herps they will contribute to the endagnerment.

In truth there is no will to remove the law that forbids the import of wildcaught animals so really there is no danger of Norway contributing to endangerment of rare species since it would be illegal to import wildcaught animals.

obeligz sier:

Also.

obeligz sier:

There is the subject of dangerous animals.

The norwegian government fears that the country will be filled with poisenous snakes if herptiles are permitted.

In truth there is no plan for legalising poisenous snakes and this has not been suggesten by anyone at any point.

obeligz sier:

Also...

obeligz sier:

There is the subject that there is insufficient information, whitch is partly true but without dispensations beeing released and without people beeing able to work with animals such information cannot be produced.

obeligz sier:

also.

obeligz sier:

There is the subject of salmonella, whitch we have already covered.

obeligz sier:

Also

obeligz sier:

There is the subject of preservation of Norwegian fauna but as we both know it is next to impossible for any other than the native norwegian species to survive in Norway as winter temperatures in this country can reach minus 60 degrees celcius

obeligz sier:

2 seks.

obeligz sier:

back.

obeligz sier:

was on the phone

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok

obeligz sier:

but normal winter temperatures are about minus 20 degreed celcius in most of teh country.

obeligz sier:

hmm..

obeligz sier:

I wonder if I have left anything out..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

even with "only" minus 20°C it is quiet impossibel.

obeligz sier:

yes it is.

obeligz sier:

As far as my knowledge goes there are only 2-3 other species that are non native to Norway that could survive these temperatures and these species are nor suggested legalised.

obeligz sier:

As far as other countries go I'm not up to date.

obeligz sier:

I only know about the situation in Hawaii and very vaguely at that.

obeligz sier:

I think there are 1-2 other countries where herps are illegal also but I do not remember whitch.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok. just to make sure that i didn´t get you wrong. government thinks that legalizing herptiles would endanger rare species even more, but you don´t want to make wildcaughts legal. they think venomous snakes could be dangerous, but you never asked for legalize venomous snakes.and the only few species which maybe could survive the winter you don´t want to legalize either? so, in fact, you are....

obeligz sier:

in general the herptile hobby is growing in popularity all over the world because herps are more suited than many other countries to keep in large cities where dogs and cats hac ne forbidden in some living complexes, herps don't need to be taken out for a walk and do not cause allergies.

On a global scale I expect the hobby to rise increasingly in popularity in the years to come for these reasons.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

in common with the norwegian government.

obeligz sier:

What do you mean by"in common"?



obeligz sier:

Yopur first statement is correct.

obeligz sier:

(sorry for all the typing errors I make)

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

no problem i do it too. but i mean that all you want is not really against the laws.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

cause you don´t want, what they forbid.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i hope you understand me

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

they don´t want venomous snakes - you either. they don´t want to legalize wildcaughts - you either....and so on.

obeligz sier:

They forbid EVERYTHING.

We want to make a negative list whitch forbids animals that are poisenous, too large (0.5m for lizards and 2m for snakes), animals that are wildcaught AND make the rest legal



obeligz sier:

no need to excuse yourself.

My english is not too good eigther.

It is normal that we can't understand eachother all the time. Different cultures, different people, different perceptions.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

there is maybe one more thing i could do for you. 30 minutes from my city there is an office for wildlife conservation (where you have to tell which animals you keep, CITES-controles and so on.) maybe they could do something? i will try at least. and yes, i understood that they forbid everything. sure.

obeligz sier:

I don't want to bother you too much. If yuo are able to check with the DGHT online and perhaps speak to some peaople there and perhaps give me a name that can give me some formal statements or something then maybe could make a light difference for my part.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

you don´t bother in any way! really, i love reptiles and so i WANT to help you and your animals as much as possible.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i will stay in contact with the dght. and i will try to call some people tomorrow.

obeligz sier:

Since my Ex girlfriend still lives in the same house as me and she had 2 dendrobates species her animals gaot taken away too, but I said to the government that her animals were mine so that she doens't have to get pursued by the law ang get fines and such.

However, as it is illegal to keep herps in Norway I do not have CITES permits for these animals. All I had once were the temporary permits (mor

obeligz sier:

issued by the vendors but over the course of time I have lost these.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

so you think it is better if i not go there?

obeligz sier:

I think that it won't help much because as much as this agency would like to help they are bound by the rules and regulations of your country, the national regulations and my country's regulations so they really are helpless in this subject I would think.

obeligz sier:

Any paper they would be able to produce would make a difference that is so vague that it wouldn't be worth all the work and pain you use to obtain and sent it over here. Ofcourse I could be wrong but..

obeligz sier:

I think there are more constructive ways to work and more improtant matterd to adress.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok as you want. perhaps you are right. so my father wants me to spaek for him, cause he thinks that my english is still better than his.

obeligz sier:

hehe. Your english is very good.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

so he would like to know, if there is a "name" for this law.

obeligz sier:

hmm...

obeligz sier:

Let me check.

obeligz sier:

Next question.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok, now this is an unpleasent question. (he is a journalist..hehe) he wants to know, why you keep herptiles when there is this law and you have to expect that they´re taken away and put to death. didn´t you expect that this law would become "reality"?

obeligz sier:

The lwaw is called "the regulation for Ecotic animals" and does not cover only herptiles but all animals that are exotic to norway, For example tigers, monkeys and exotic birds are illekal to keep.

The regulation also covers exotic fish (many of whitch are legal to keep) and herptiles whitch are illegal tok eep

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

so even goldfishes must be illegal if you take them wordly, but in fact they are not, right?

obeligz sier:

It's ok. Ask any questions you may wish.

When I bought my first reptile at the age of 17 I didn't know that it was illegal. Many Norwegians don't know this still. Obnly the tast 5 or so yyears there has been a substantial amount of media coverage on the subject so now most people normally remember vaguely that herps are illegal.

After I bought my first herp I started confersating with other (more

obeligz sier:

people about tthis and soon found out that it was illegal



obeligz sier:

at this point I didn't dare to contact the authorities to ask for a dispensation in fear that the animals I already har would be taken away from me and put to death.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i live in a quiet cold part of germany, where it can be easily minus15°C in winter and goldfishes can survive in garden lakes of people easily. so i guess it could be the same in norway. that is a big contradiction if they worry about they own native fauna...

obeligz sier:

Goldfish are not illegal because they are permitted as a part of the regulation by some paragraph further down (this is a quite long regulation with much paragraphs of types of animals that are exepted from the main regulation.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

so, but normally this fishes SHOULD be forbidden, cause thy could survive in nature if someones fed up with them and brings them in a lake....

obeligz sier:

Yes, It would be, exept winter is harder, longer and colder over here so your goldfish would not outlive one of our winters. Temps here are sub zero for many months of the year and minus 20 deg temps during several weeks at a time several times during a winter are comon.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i am really astonished how stupid and how full of contradictions laws can be.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok i see.

obeligz sier:

take scorpions and tarantulas as example.

The law forbids waxworms because they are a pest to bee farmers.

Tarantulas and scorpions are allowed.

Sevearly poisenous scropions and tarantulas are sometimes sold in petshops but still the most harmell little gecko is illegal and will be confiscated and put to death if found in ssomeones home.

Even the poliece don't like this, in most cases the (more)

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

and you said, that you can by vivariums and so on (even crickets, cockroaches and other feeding insects??) legally? so what do the police or government think people buy those crickets for?

obeligz sier:

poliece tries "not to see" illegal animals but with cases such as mine where someone has reported illegal animals then the poliece has no choice but to apprihend the criminal (in this case me) and bring him to justice. you already know the fate of the animals.

obeligz sier:

crickets and roaches are eaten also by scorpions and tarantulas.

Feeder mince are also sold (frozen only) in petshops, this is something tarantulas don't eat I think...yes?

obeligz sier:

vitamins made especially for herptiles are also sold in petshops,.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

yes, . so what is your exactly position in your organistion, when was it founded and what (except the legalizing) are you working for?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

and since when are you a memeber of this?

obeligz sier:

UV lighting is not used for any other type of animal than herptiles as far as I know, they are also sold in petshops (Fish UV lighting is a different matter, they are ofcourse available here also)

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i am sorry...it sounds like an stupid interview....but in fact that´s what it is i guess for the moment.

obeligz sier:

well..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

it reminds me germany and marihuana.....it is forbidden to smoke, but you can buy waterpipes and all stuff you need everywhere...

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

well i don´t want it to legalize, i just don´t care...

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

(the marihuana i mean, not your reptiles of course..)

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

with the uv light you are right. yes. i only use it for my reptiles...never for invertebrates.

obeligz sier:

I am a member of the cometee of the board of NHF (Norwegian Herpetological ascociation), we are in fact 5 members of the comitee and we run the NHF.

It was founded in 1970 I think (I'm not sure, I'll check but it will take a few mins, I'll get back to you on that)



lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok.

obeligz sier:

when herptiles were forbidden in Norway in 1977 the NHF was pout to sleep but it woke up 12 years ago to start fighting the government and it's legislation.

obeligz sier:

In essence..

obeligz sier:

Norwegians that keep herptiles are afraid to get caught, most ppl who keep herps here don't dare to join the NHF in fear of exåposing themselves and their pets.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

how do you mean "put top sleep"? you were not allowed to make any publications or did the organisation just lost their will?

obeligz sier:

In reality the NHF at present has less than 200 members. A bpathetic number I know but this represents the boldest part of enthusiasts in Norway that are not that easily threatened by the law.

obeligz sier:

lost the will, stopped funtioning, in brief nothing at all happened, no meetings no chairman, no nothing

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

but you were never really forced to stop your aactivities? (it is just important to know that exactly)

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

and i understood right, that if somebody goes to a vet, f.e. with a turtle, the vet has to inform police? or are they doing it by their own will?

obeligz sier:

well. people were afraid to continue their activities in fear of getting caught. This is why everyone went underground and the government lost all control over import, export everything else in the hobby.

obeligz sier:

No. about the vets...

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

"We want to make a negative list whitch forbids animals that are poisenous, too large (0.5m for lizards and 2m for snakes), animals that are wildcaught AND make the rest legal " is that the official thing you wnat to do, and will there be some exceptions. (like iguana iguana for the size as it is a nondangereous reptile)



obeligz sier:

It has been like this

I don't know the whole history as I have only been in the country since 1986 (I'm born in Bulgaria)

and I have only kepts herps for 7 years.

But for as løong as I can remember it has been very difficult to find vets that take in herps.

First, because as herps were illegal vets didn't recieve the proper education to treat herps, second, people were afraid to go to vets (more)

obeligz sier:

In fear of getting exposed.

If you have 10 animals and 1 gets sick you try to treat your sick animal yourself or take ir to a friend (if you know any other people who share the same hobby) and if not then most people just "sacrifice" the 1 sick animal so that don't need to endanger the remaining 9 (more

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

but it is not an illegal action if a vet helps an ill herptile?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i mean if a vet could get in trouble for that

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

sorry i ask to fast...

obeligz sier:

In the past years there have been only 2 vets that have treated herps as far as I know. ! of these vets charged absurd prices for long periods (I paid about 425DM back then to treat a tockay gecko with a tumor on it's mouth.

The last vet is now a collegue in the NHF

The last 2 years many others I have worked to spread the word that people can treat their herps at most vets and that vets (more)

obeligz sier:

do not have to report the animals. The vets CAN choose to report illegal animals but we have encouraged paople to go to vets anyway but to appeal to the ethic responsabilities of vets --> to treat animals and save their lives, not to kill them by reporting them.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i understand. what about the other thing i asked you a little bit up?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

"We want to make a negative list whitch forbids animals that are poisenous, too large (0.5m for lizards and 2m for snakes), animals that are wildcaught AND make the rest legal " is that the official thing you wnat to do, and will there be some exceptions. (like iguana iguana for the size as it is a nondangereous reptile)



lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

this

obeligz sier:

yes?

obeligz sier:

yes.

obeligz sier:

well..

obeligz sier:

In order to be able to approach the government and to have a chance of reaching a negotiation level with them we had to make some sacrifices.

None of us (NHF) wanted to exclude animals such as iguanas but as there is little knowlegne about how complex iguanas are and what complex behaviours and feeding habits they have we chose to make this sacrifice to be able to keep a serious dialogue at all.



obeligz sier:

At first we proposed a "negative" list with a proposition to legalise reptiles but to exclude a large number of species.

This war full out rejected, we were laughed at by some instances of the government.

after that...

obeligz sier:

We were forced to try a "positive list"

This is a small list containing a few species that were proposed legal. I think taht this species contains 3-4 geckoes, a couple of turtles, 3-4 amphibians and some snake species.

This was also rejected but atleast we aere able to keep a serious dialogue with the government.

obeligz sier:

Then early last year the government officially wrote in a summary that they wanted to soften up rhe regulations around herptileS (nore the prurial S) but they did not want to allow import and export on Captive bred animals (WC improts is ofcouse not a topic at all)

obeligz sier:

after this the government went through a reoprganidation and what was once the department of agriculture was taken away and all the people who we had spent several years to educate along with it.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

what do you mean with this: "reoprganidation"`? sorry...

obeligz sier:

after that the new stupid I don't rememner what I called it (futher up) was made

obeligz sier:

and we have to start working with a new set of people and educate them in herptiles

obeligz sier:

we have to teach them what a herptile is, that not all are poisenous, dangerous and so on and so on

obeligz sier:

sorry for that...

Major type error..

reoprganidation= reorganisation

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ah ok. thanx

obeligz sier:

hehe

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:



obeligz sier:

anything else?

You seem very quiet.. surprised over our situation?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

yes, sure i am surprised. but i just wanted to let you tell me as much as possible

obeligz sier:

hmm..

obeligz sier:

let me see if I have forgotten something..

obeligz sier:

hmm.. Nope. I think that about covers the historical part of the subject.

What buggs me bigtime is this tho..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

but in your positive list there are still no clearly defined species as i understood. the definition is about size, venomous or not, and if it is herd to keep? like some chameleons will be still forbidden as they are not easy to keep.

obeligz sier:

The government has now formally stated they they want to soften rhe regulations up a little but still:

When beaople like me get caught (and they do every now and then) it's always the same WHAM they take the animals and kill them as fast as popssible before someone has a chance to protest or do anything.

My case has been an exeptional one this time tho:

My animals have survived for a long (more)

obeligz sier:

time by Norwegian standards, In some cases the animals are killed even before the species are identified by the proper authorities.

obeligz sier:

there is a definition of a list but it is of no use anymore as it didn't come through.

We are thinking of going back to fighting for the "negative list" since we think that the other sollution was very unjust and unethical.

obeligz sier:

On the "positive list" there were animals like corn snake, leopard gecko, fattail gecko, milk frog and common boa aswell as small python species.

obeligz sier:

here is the old "positive list" suggestion it's in norwegian but if you scroll down you'll see the names of the species.

obeligz sier:

http://www.noherpetologiskforening.homestead.com/files/Positivliste_-_dokumentHTML.htm

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i don´t know what milkfrog and fattail gecko is in german...can you give me the scientific name?

obeligz sier:

yes, check the link.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok

obeligz sier:

hmm it seems I was wrong, The limit on snakes was 3 meteres and on lizards 60 cm.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i will remember. but this is what you actually want to propose or did you propose it already?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

one second. i´ll be back in a minute

obeligz sier:

did. This list was made before I joined the NHF

I want to change this list and I think there's a strong will for this in the NHF too.

The thing is that the NHF is a little waek right now.

12 years of rejections from the government has taken it'æss toll on the comitee.

I'm "new blood" in the NHF so to speak, full of enthusiasm and so on..

But as soon as I started to show my nose out a little (more)

obeligz sier:

more on the internet and started educating the people and motivating them to fight for their cause then it seems I'm mysteriously contacted by the poliece andit seems my legs are broken now (methaphorically speaking ofcourse).

all my animals except the rarest onea are gone and all animals are likely to get killed by the end of the week...

obeligz sier:

But I refuse to give up at this point.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i am back

obeligz sier:

If anything I'm only more agitated. Seeing how much support I have recieved both nationally and internationally I can't just give up on the cause.

obeligz sier:

nods.

obeligz sier:



lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i am seriuos when i say that mayn people can take you as an example. cause in your situation many people would surely have put their head in the sand, afraid to get even more trouble with the police if they hold against them

obeligz sier:

well...

obeligz sier:

since I got caught on thursday I've had atleat 50 invitations of people why want to "steal" my animals while I'm at the gas station filling gas infront of a camera..

I did not want to choose this option because it will have implications for people who get caught after mer and besides..

obeligz sier:

I have to concider taht I work in dialogue with the government, I can't allow myself to act more like a criminal than I already am..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

sure it would not have been very clever to giv e your ok to that stealing action. it would have helped maybe your animals, but as you said, only yours...

obeligz sier:

Since Thursday I think that I have slept on average 4 hours per night, the rest I've spent working for this cause..

obeligz sier:

I'll see my lawyer, the poliece, the media a,d I also have an appointment with a psychologist tomorrow..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

with a psychologist? did they tell you to do that?

obeligz sier:

no.

obeligz sier:

But it may help my cause.

obeligz sier:

To tell you the truth I'm exhausting absolutely all possibilities I have at the moment,

My animals are very dear to me, I will attempt to pursuade the psychologist that in fact I'm very attached to my animals (whitch is true) and that I would sufefr a great depression if they were taken from me and put to death.

obeligz sier:

Hopefully the psychologist can write me a note that I can implement in my application and hope that this factor will maybe be concidered (besides the fact that some of my animals are rather rare...

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

that´s a good idea. yes. if this would happen to me, i would not know what to do, and sure i would get an "psychologic attest"...that´s really good...

obeligz sier:

I also hope that by going throug all this I'm able to write something meaningful about it so that I can help the people who get caught after me. Someone has to succeed at some point, right?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

absolutely right.

obeligz sier:

so where I come to short maybe others after me will succeed..

obeligz sier:

But as it is right now it feels like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall...

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i guess it will be ok, when your name is mentioned in the article?

obeligz sier:

My name is Vålen Gånev, on the net I normally use "obeligz" (with a little "o".

You are free to use any of those.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok, so maybe it could be interesting in which city you live. (it makes it "sounding" more complete if you understand)

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

and your age maybe

obeligz sier:

I din't mind at all. ^_^

I'm 24

I'm born in Bulgria

Moved to Norway in 1986

I now live in Oslo

And I plan to go back to school to study for a veterinary.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

specialised on reptiles?

obeligz sier:

not possible here in Norway (herps are illegal)

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

even to learn about that. ok.

obeligz sier:

and I can't afford to study outside of norway.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

you are born in bulgaria. so your nationality i bulgarian?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

or did you change maybe?

obeligz sier:

I have both Bulgarian and Norwegian Nationality but I now concider myself as norwegian as I'lve spent the last 17 years of my life in this frozen stupid country..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

one last question: when did you start your interest in herptiles? and are you mainly interested in reptiles, amphibians, invertebrates or all?

obeligz sier:

I have always been interesten in herptiles.

When I was 4-5 we used to go to our summerplace in Bulgaria where we used to catch lizards and grass snakes whitch we ofcourse weren't allowed to keep and whiitch we always released.

When I was small I was taught that lizards and snakes are beneficial animals that eat mosquitos and mice.

In norway they teach their children that snakes are slimy and (more

obeligz sier:

dangerous.

obeligz sier:

My fascination if for geckoes.

I love all kinds of herptiles but I'm especially fascinated by arboreal geckoes.

obeligz sier:

My favorites are Tockay geckoes, Lepidodactylus lugubris and Rhacodactylus species.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

tokays are fantatsic. i had some some years ago too.

obeligz sier:

I got some of mine quite tame, Wonderful animals. They are much nicer than their reputation. ^_^

obeligz sier:

I was working on my F2 generation of CB tockays when my animals got imponded today.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

mine were typically tokays. biting and some kind of "little assholes" .....but i loved them

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

CB?

obeligz sier:

hehe

obeligz sier:

Captive bred.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok

obeligz sier:

I've also had the "asshole" variant tockays, my first CW animals were like that.

obeligz sier:

CW=WC=wild caught

obeligz sier:

hmm.. sorry aboyt the "hehe" I meant that about you mentioning you animals as mean..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i understand . for the moment i keep Tropiocolotes steudneri, Chameleo calyptratus, Iguana iguana, Iguana rhinolopha, Anolis carolinensis, Pantherophis guttattus (whichwas Elaphe guttatta as you might know), Salamandra salamandra and many different tarantulas, insects and scorpion

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ja, i understood.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

for the iguana rhinolopha i got into troubles too, because i had no papers for him...

obeligz sier:

I've also kept anaoles in the past, Loved them also.

I have wanted an iguana for a long time but I feel that I've never had enough space to build a large enough enclosure

obeligz sier:

I hope you sorted out the paperwork part?

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

so i had to convince people that he was not a wildcaught....he was bought by a small child 8 years ago into a zooshop imn denmark. after a couple of months he grew to large for their vivarium and the parents brought hime to a vet to put him to death, because of his size.... of course the vet didn´t do it , but they refused to take him back home. so they left him there without papers and after..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i got him

obeligz sier:

oh. I see..

I'm glad that it turned out alright for you.

obeligz sier:

You have such an understanding government.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

but i was lucky....i had to show that i know how to care for him and so on...they forced me to find out the zooshop, but it doesn´t excist anymore.

obeligz sier:

oki..

obeligz sier:

arent this type og iguana more common and easy to get in germany?

obeligz sier:

But anyway..

I have to continue my work to try to save my animals this night, I cave to write mu application for dispensation..any last questions?

obeligz sier:

I'm sorry to press you like this but time really isn't on my side..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

yes, they sell them in every little shop...and that is a big problem. cause most people can´t care for them due to their size and so on. high electricity billetc..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

no problem, i have enough information for now and i will tell you all news tomorrow. by email if you prefer.

obeligz sier:

that is one of the reasons why we (NHF) didn't want to legalise iguanas in the first place. too many WC aniomals that are not properly cared for..

obeligz sier:

that would be great. My mail is obeligz@c2i.net

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok, so i will contact you that way.

obeligz sier:

Do you mind if I use this treascript also?

to futher our cause in Norway and get more international support

obeligz sier:

*transcript

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

you mean what we were talking about all time? sure why not.

obeligz sier:

yes.

obeligz sier:

Thank you.

obeligz sier:

beacuse this is your story and you have the rights to it..

obeligz sier:

you're the reporter tonight.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

hehe...no sure

obeligz sier:



obeligz sier:

ok. By then. Thanks for all the help and We'll talk again soon.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

but one thing.... with the iguana it was the "good will" for one time... it is not really official allowed to me to keep him without papers. they just proposed me that they will "forget it" cause they saw he is well at my home

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

germany is very strict with this laws normally

obeligz sier:

2 secs..

obeligz sier:

was on the phone..

obeligz sier:

That is how it ideally should be.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

if you want to tell about this, you have to keep that in mind. herptiles are allowed here, but only with papers. only in rare cases you can get a "special" allowness.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

papers only for endangered species of course.

obeligz sier:

To tell you the truth I envy you..

I just don't want to give up and move out of norway to be able to keep my animals..

obeligz sier:

I know, I'm familiar with some of the german regulations.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

no, you should not give up of course...until yesterday night it was really always a bg wish from me to move to norway one day..until yesterday...

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

i love your country, although i have never been there

obeligz sier:

I was positively surprised that the last years I have seen fewer and fewer wildcaught animals at the Terraristika expo at Hamm.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

you have been there? i am there almost every year.

obeligz sier:

hehe..

obeligz sier:

I'm also there almost every year. This year I was suppodsed to go to Daytona Florida also..

But I'll probably end up getting a 3000 Euro fine for my crimes and then I can't afford to go. Also I was sopposed to bring with me some leachianus to Daytona whch are now with the government..

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

by the way....my pic on the left is the iguana we were talking about.

obeligz sier:

It's a very nice pic.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

because he is a nice iguana

obeligz sier:



lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

ok, so i don´t want to disturb you working any longer...thanx for the information and we see us tomorrow, ok?

obeligz sier:

oki.

obeligz sier:

C ya.

obeligz sier:

Thanks for everything.

lorien7@gmx.net (E-postadressen er ikke bekreftet) sier:

no probs

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