Thanks for clueing me in to check for the clutch 4 results for about the 10th time this week! Nice of Mr. Davis to share this along with all the rest of his breeding results.



There are many different ways that both platy daddy X lesser platy AND lesser platy X phantom could both produce blue eyed leucistic.



The idea that in addition to all the visible co-dominant stuff going on in these two lines that there is also a recessive leucistic gene in both is of course possible.



However, my money is still on phantom and platy pattern being at least alleles (different mutations of the same gene) if not the exact same mutation and blue-eyed leucistic being their super.



This still leaves the nagging question of why the platy line is more faded, particularly platy daddy. Given the two levels of fadedness in the platy line (lesser and daddy) I'm thinking there may be a 2nd co-dominant gene that causes the hypo appearance. However, given that Ralph produced platy daddy (the super hypo platy type) from lesser platy X normal sibling I'm thinking there is an odd twist that this hypo gene is co-dominant in conjunction with the platy pattern gene but perhaps never visible without it (or another allele of the platy pattern gene).



Should be an interesting next few year with lots of questions to answer.



Are platy and phantom the exact same mutation, alleles (DIFFERENT mutations of the same gene), or unrelated mutations? If the blue-eyed leucistics produced in 2003 from lesser platy X phantom don't produce any normals then I would say that rules out them being unrelated mutations of different genes. If those 2003 blue-eyed leucistics bred to normals produce only distinct phantoms and patties then they are probably alleles (all though there could still be another gene influencing pattern separate from the platy and phantom genes).



Are any copies of the hidden co-dominant hypo gene needed to make a blue-eyed leucistic? If not, then two phantoms could make a blue-eyed leucistic. This raises the question as to if two mojaves or two butters could also do it since they all look a little alike (perhaps platy, phantom, mojave, and butter are all alleles of the same gene and any combination would produce leucistics). However, since they black-eyed leucistic seems to be co-dominant with a hypo looking het maybe the hypo feeds in somehow and you can’t make a leucistic without it.



Is the hidden co-dominant hypo gene linked in any way to the platy pattern gene? I would tend to say not since lesser platy X normal sib produced platy daddy. I think this means that the normal sib had one copy of the hidden co-dominant hypo gene but since she didn't also have the platys pattern gene it was hidden but it enabled the homozygous hidden co-dominant hypo gene babies that also happened to get the platy gene creating a platy daddy. If there is no linking, then we should see some hidden co-dominant hypo gene phantoms (the "cross"?) as well as some platys that aren't even lesser (i.e. pattern only but not hypo, might look a lot like a phantom or a mojave).



Not to down play how special (and striking) these snakes are but I think we are going to see a lot more leucistics. Sure there is some slight uncertainty but I would be very surprised if Bob Clark/Mike Wilbank’s Fireball’s where not the hets for Eric Daves’ black-eyed leucistic. There is a lot more uncertainty but I also wouldn’t be surprised if leucistics of some type come out of Mojave and/or butter. Ralph will still have a ton of them and a big head start but I think his 2004 clutch 4 is good news for everyone.

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