>>Terry,

>>

>>Thanks for the reply to my posting. This is the kind of information I like to see - a citing of a definite source and the reasoning behind recommending a certain temperature range. Obviously you're far more familiar with what Schulz has written about the various taeniura spp. than I am. Makes me wish I had that expensive book of his. Anyway, if the Blues indeed all come from montaine regions then they would tend to like it cooler. Still, I'd like to know just how much range they cover as a species. Perhaps they might occur somewhere that is a more hot and humid environment.

>>>>

On another note along the same lines. A co-worker of mine was born in Taiwan and lived there for a few years and still goes back to see family there. She assures me that Taiwan is much of the time oppressively hot and humid, however cooler in the mountains but not by much. I only keep Taiwan Beauties, so in my case tending to keep them warmer on occasion seems to be okay given what I've seen over the last couple years as I've monitored the weather there, off and on. Also, I've never seen much indication that my snakes were stressing from excess heat, and in fact even on the warmest days they tend to stay up in the "trees" [i.e. the highest branches in my enclosures which are 6' tall]. >>







Matt,



I have time for a short reply as I'm going out of town again, for the rest of the weekend.



I think one of the reasons we have trouble with the Asian species is because not much has been written about them. Schulz' book is the bible because it's almost the only book, and gives considerable information, including some natural history and husbandry notes.



Friesi, like the other Indo-Chinese ssp, except yunnanensis, are not montane exactly, but inhabit altitudes from about sea-level to about 1000 m in montane regions, according to Schulz. I've monitored the climate of Taiwan and other places in Asia too. One reason the snakes hide a lot is because it is so hot/humid in summertime, which can be a long season.



Most of the taeniura ssps. are found in foothills of mtns, rather than on coastal plains, and there are probably lots of microhabitats, including caves for most ssps. It's funny neither of us actually keep blue beauties, and are having this discussion. Maybe that's what is needed though. When Schulz published his book, he only had 3 specimens of blue beauty (taeniura ssp.) to look at. There was very little info at that time. The couple pics I saw were of a gorgeous snake, but there had to be more variation. Since then, many ratsnake breeders have added blues to their collections, but I think most of them have come from a few imports.



I really don't know much about how many imports there have been or the exact locations the snakes came from. I don't think many folks do. Some were said to have come from Vietnam (which means North Vietnam). North Vietnam is mostly montane and is very close to the ranges of yunnanensis and mocquardi in the east. I think blues intergrade with yunnanensis in the wild, but yunnanensis is montane and the blues probably inhabit the lower elevations where they meet. So the range of the taeniura ssp. now looks to be from n. Burma to n. Thailand, Laos, and N. Vietnam. I don't even know if the taeniura ssp. has received a ssp. name, or not, yet. The ssp. probably can only be recognized from color/pattern, tongue color, scalation, size, etc, but there will likely be many intergrades, both natural and manmade.



There is more definate information about t. friesi, however. You have noted that they tolerate fairly high temps. I wonder how long they can stand temps up to 85-90*? Certainly, you let it cool down at night, at least? I wouldn't argue that no ssp. could tolerate temps up to 85, or so, at least for a time, but that they would probably become uncomfortable if there was no relief from this heat, especially if it was very humid also. I would recommend a warm end, heated, for ssp. that were adapted better to the heat, but also a cool end, so it wouldn't be constant. You may have a point with the taeniura ssp. (blues) because of what we know about their habitats and climate. People will have to make observations and make adjustments according to what they observe from their captives.





>>The interesting thing here is that the taeniura spp. seem to occupy such a large range throughout asia and southeast asia that as a whole you probably can't make blanket recommendations about temps. The main thing I've seen is a lot of people caution about keeping them too warm and are often recommending temps that seldom get out of the 70s - I still think keeping them at temps upwards of the mid 80s is pretty good as a rule and possibly going higher depending on the species.

>>-----

>>Matt Campbell

>>Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House

>>Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

>>

>>Assistant Curator

>>Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm

>>Lake Forest, Illinois





I agree that we can't generalize. We need to look at each ssp. individually. Different snakes have different needs. The range of the species is tremendous from Indonesia to India to East Asia. There's going to be variety, but also some general trends as a species. The blue beauties are supposedly between a ridleyi and a yunnanensis, so some will say that they could have similar requirements to these two. It should be a subspecies in its own right, eventually though, imo. Also, folks will talk about what they've heard from breeders who have the blues. We should probably avoid keeping them, and any snake, from becoming over-heated, or under-heated. That's one reason I think there should be variation in temps, and keepers should monitor the effects on their snakes.



Interesting subject, and lots to be learned by discussion. I hope some of the breeders give us some information too from what they've seen in their observations of the blue beauties.



Thanks for your reply and talk more later....TC.

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