(to read the thread that prompted this you can start at:
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=652999,652999
(it gets interesting and/or pertinent about half way down)

so here are some thoughts relative to hondurans:

Since we're considering anery and axanthic separately, no-red, and no-yellow, the snake commonly called the "anery" hondo might be instructive because its normal coloration contains BOTH red and yellow. Of particular interest are the narrow rings in the middle of every triad (a triad = black/narrow middle ring/black): those rings vary from white, which will confuse the issue a little, to cream, to yellow, to yellowish-gold, to gold, to pale orange, etc--you get the idea, a continuum of colors.

Anyway, I'm assuming then that the belief is--going on your explanation in the kingsnake thread, tim ricks--that those narrow rings (with the exception of white) can and often do contain both "red" and "yellow", the colors contributed by erythrins and axanthophores, if i'm using those terms correctly.

Now back to the "anerythristic" honduran. Louis Porras has already observed they're not really "AN"erythristic (NO erythrins) but rather HYPOerythristic, with reduced erythrins. The pic below shows what louis was talking about: clearly, some pink is left in the wide rings that are normally red. (Digression: many hondos gain yellow as they age, and as a result some "anery" hondos have a suggestion of orange in the wide rings, maybe the effect of the relict red ontogenic yellow?)

BUT look at the narrow rings--pure white, and that's the case with all "anerythristic" hondos...there's never been one reported with anything but white in those narrow rings--rings where, it is important to note, BOTH yellow and red pigments can and often do occur.

SO: it would appear that in the NARROW rings, the "anery" honduran is actually ANerythristic AND Axanthic--that is, wholly lacking BOTH colors.

But In the wide rings, it could be argued the "anery" hondo is HYPOerythristic as louis pointed out.

But that leads to a couple questions:
Why is red eliminated completely from some rings but only partially on others? I'd imagine the triggers for depositing red in the wide rings are altered in a different way--or to a diff degree--than those triggers for the narrow rings. It's interesting that two diff effects would always be linked on these animals--neither occurs without the other.
Are the wide, usually "red" rings on hondos, on TANGERINE specimens, which are really orange, created solely by the presence of erythrins? Can erythrins produce orange, as well as red?
Or is that orange created by a combination of the two: are xanthophores present there too, and when they're in greater concentration (or when erythrins are reduced) the wide rings look orange instead of red? (in mixing paints, or crayons, or combining color filters for photography, etc., yellow & red = orange)

In short, what we call "anerythristic" hondos may actually be "hypoerythristic on the wide rings" and "axanthic on the narrow rings"? Are there other examples of snakes showing such combined effects but never the two effects separately?

Or, since the color of "anery" hondos is pale pink in the wide rings (see photo) maybe "anery" hondos are xanthic over their entire body, but truly anerythristic only on the narrow rings, while being hypoerythristic on the wide ones.

It's worth noting that although some adult anerys show the effects of ontogenic gain in yellow, that shows only on the wide rings, whereas on albinos (amelanisitcs) it shows on all the snake's body, including the rings that would be black on a normal.

I'd be interested in others' opinions.

terry

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