I, too, nearly suffered a very similar loss; almost identical circumstances. My oldest female, a Chuck Elliott animal, was my very first indigo that I got from him years ago. Her first two breedings/egg layings went flawlessly. I always gave her a year off in between successful egg layings. The third time around, she became egg bound. Like you, it was only one small undeveloped egg that led to some complications; at the time, it was no big deal and she recovered fine. She was as at optimal weight very quickly so I decided to breed her again...a mistake on my part. After passing five good eggs, the last three were completely stuck. Although I scheduled emergency surgery, I decided to manually palpate/massage the eggs out and much to my surprise, they came out but she was very ill for many months following that (probably my fault). She is no longer being bred but I wonder how close to death she was at one time and what long term effects may have been inflicted on her.

Dean, although the loss of this snake must be sickening, there is still so much we just don't know. We know how taxing breeding is on females and that is one of the trade offs for us who have the privilege in working with this species; these things are just going to happen. I personally don't think there was anything you could have done differently to help this snake as I know how well kept they are in your collection. One of my many curiousities is in wondering if wild indigos go through the same types of struggles that captive females go through. Are there certain variables, or perhaps combinations of variables, that interplay with one another to ensure a higher degree of success? All we can do is just share this kind of data as you did, which was very helpful, learn from it, and continue to build our knowledge base about this incredible species.

Dean, sorry again for this loss. Rob

>>A few days ago I lost one of my prized adult female eastern indigos, “Rebecca”
>>She was very obviously gravid, and had bred several times.
>>
>>The snake has given me 3 good clutches, she was 7 years old, and upon measuring her after death, was 6’10” long. In 2002, she laid a stunning 16 eggs, 15 of which hatched into perfect babies.
>>
>>I felt I needed to pass this on:
>>
>>In 2003, she became swollen but did not lay eggs, and upon examination at the vet through ultrasound, we found one small, underdeveloped egg. This was removed using only a tiny incision.
>>My vet felt as if she would be fine to breed again.
>>
>>I gave her 2004 off, and bred her again this fall and winter…so she would have been due to lay in April of 2005. She didn’t make it.
>>
>>I don’t know if it was the breeding that killed her…looks like she was on the way out anyway.
>>Here are the Necropsy results as submitted to me:
>>
>>RIP Rebecca
>>
>>Abnormal liver with raised, yellowish-whitish spots all over.
>>One firm nodular mass in the pancreas, appeared caseous upon incision - hardened abscess.
>>Multiple follicles of various sizes. The entire oviduct and uterus were adhered to the peritoneum, and appeared bloody. More caseous material found in the fat bodies.
>>One nodular structure which may possibly be an egg yolk - was hard upon palpation and appeared caseous upon incision.
>>
>>Possible cause of death: Cardiovascular failure due to sepsis due to (egg yolk) peritonitis.
>>
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

[ Hide Replies ]

• Mourning a loss... - DeanAlessandrini, Wed Jan 12 09:40:28 2005
• Sorry for your loss. n/p - BobS, Wed Jan 12 09:57:42 2005
• Sorry for your loss also. --- n/p - johnfroton, Wed Jan 12 10:47:53 2005
• I am sorry for your loss Dean........... - Fred Albury, Wed Jan 12 12:54:21 2005
• RE: Mourning a loss... - Chuck_Elliott, Wed Jan 12 14:02:23 2005
• RE: Mourning a loss... - Dann, Wed Jan 12 16:19:52 2005
• RE: Mourning a loss... - philfrank, Wed Jan 12 21:50:11 2005
• tough one dean... - dan felice, Thu Jan 13 07:12:36 2005
• Dean, sorry about the loss...more... - Carmichael, Thu Jan 13 08:48:28 2005
• RE: Mourning a loss... - mrand, Thu Jan 13 17:19:19 2005
• RE: Mourning a loss... - crimsonking, Fri Jan 14 23:05:08 2005