Linda,
...I looked at the Xrays you posted the other day and to me they look like large mature but likely unfertilized ova that have passed down into the oviducts. Rather than being unferitlized they could have been fertilized and died early in development leaving her with masses that look grossly the same as unfertilized ones. In the past I cut open one big dead obviouly gravid Boa Constrictor that had masses that looked just like what those look like in your Xray. You can have your vet remove these if you want but as large as the boa is she should have no trouble eventually delivering them as slugs. There is always the risk that letting her carry them they can open up and start decomposing and either damage her oviducts or cause an infection. Of course with surgical removal there is also the danger of possible infection or damage to the oviducts. Seems like a coin toss situation to me.
...I have been reading the ultrasound posts with great interest. I use a simple bladder scanning ultrasound regularly at work but have only some experience with ultrasound machines that would work for scanning snakes looking for follicles. I think most of the problems with getting good images could be solved if you could get a really good uniform thickness gel seal between the probe and the snake. Of course this is impossible due to the shape of snake scales. It also may be that the varying thickness of the scales and area between them may be interfering with good ultrasound transmission.
...I have produced lots of live baby boids but also lots of dead fullterm ones and an awful lot of slugs. I make a point to try to learn from every one of my mistakes and failures. I have lost gravid snakes in the past and always opened them up to see if I could learn something. I also slice up every slug my Rainbows have ever laid and also open up every smelly dead python egg.
....Dr Eliot Jacobsen at the University of Florida was taking donations from several sources including reptile shows for several years to help fund his IBD research. AFAIK he has done more research on IBD than anyone else. I do not know if his IBD research continues.
Jeff

>>Jeremy and Sean – I saved everything you wrote on the ultrasound subject, as I’m sure others did as well. This will be my last lengthy post on this, but I did want to say “thanks” – your help is truly appreciated.
>>
>>I still am not sure what to do about Missy. I guess I’ll stick with Plan A and see what she looks like in March. If there is no change, I will ask my vet to remove the ova. After all this time, I just can’t see them doing anything in the way of making babies. If they are infertile, I believe they should come out. I don’t know what else to do.
>>
>>It is interesting that no one has commented on the x-rays. There were a few requests here, and I received quite a number of them privately, to post the x-rays. Oh well.
>>
>>Sean, I’m still on the fence about getting one of those ultrasounds like yours. With my small collection, I’m trying to decide if the “fun” quotient would be worth the expense. My vet has told me he will give me lessons on its usage and that is a dangerous incentive for my pocketbook
>>
>>Jeremy, I thought one of your probes was a transrectal, but I couldn’t remember. I do remember what nice images you got – I’m sure my vet is tired of hearing about your nice images...hehe, but he is a good sport and it’s not his fault their probe shorted out.
>>
>>I agree that these boas are fascinating critters and I have only scratched the surface. The successes are truly blessings and the failures can be invaluable learning experiences (once one completes therapy after losing a litter of Motleys and T pos. hets). Jeremy, I know you were devastated after that. I would have needed Post Trauma, especially after seeing that the babies were perfectly formed and full term. I hope you find some answers in this tragedy.
>>
>>Regarding closely held secrets – the horse show world acclimated me to that mindset and I understand it. The difference is that the secrets held close in boa breeding are lessons learned through hard work over time. This knowledge has been gained the old fashioned way. ((On the other hand - training secrets involving show horses of almost every breed often involve unimaginable horror and torture that John Q Public could never fathom, watching from the rail. There is tremendous pressure for trainers to produce overnight sensations. The monetary rewards are intoxicating and the horses are the victims of heinous atrocities. When I became aware of what really goes on, I stopped showing. My last show mare finished in the top 5 in the world and we did it the old fashioned way – time and humane training. My horses are my friends and you don’t hurt your friends. To continue showing and look the other way, was something I couldn’t do.))
>>
>>Regarding diseases, death and IBD – Jeremy, I agree with you completely. I would rather see this discussed and rehashed into the ground, so that we might learn more. The stigma is preventing us all from learning - and money, of course. People’s attitude about IBD reminds me of when Aids was first discovered. I lived in Houston then, and at that time, we had the nation’s second largest gay community. It was the whole Chicken Little and the sky is falling in, paranoia. There were some very wild assumptions being made before we had some answers about the disease. IBD is a terrible thing and it is too bad there is no funding to support researchers in finding a possible cure, or at least some concrete answers about how it works and is transmitted. Like you said, there is a lot of hush, hush – looking the other way – denial – and paranoia born of our overall ignorance. It is a sad thing.
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>>The thing that scares me the most are the boas that are asymptomatic carriers, who look and act perfectly normal, and may or may not, ever manifest symptoms. The thought that these animals can pass on this virus to offspring is frightening. It is one thing when you have an animal who is obviously ill, but to know that some can carry this virus for *years????* undetected, until one day when a stressor triggers it - or maybe that never happens and the animal dies of what appears to be natural causes. How many of its babies are carriers and how will develop outward symptoms? We need answers and solutions.
>>
>>I have decided to take a radical approach with my own collection and have them all tested. I realize this cannot provide me with an absolute 100% guarantee because that doesn’t exist in testing a living boa. However, I will feel better knowing I did what I could to assure myself that all my seemingly healthy boas are not carriers.
>>
>>How many times has this scenario played out in our boa world?
>>***An animal is purchased and appears healthy. Down the road, weeks? – months?, it develops an illness/disorder that is common to IBD or it dies with no symptoms. The buyer is naturally devastated and searches for answers and/or monetary compensation. The seller says, “Why, all my animals are healthy and I have NEVER had IBD in MY collection. The boa you purchased must have gotten the virus from one of your animals.” What to do? The buyer also claims his animals are healthy and none have ever shown signs of illness. He adds that his husbandry is excellent and the new animal has been separated from the others in a quarantine situation the entire time. The problem is, he can’t prove it and is basically S.O.L.***
>>
>>This is bad enough when the boa has just been a beloved pet that didn’t cost an arm and a leg. It is another thing when that animal did cost an arm and a leg, and the buyer is stuck in a catch 22 with no hope of recovery. I liken these “arm/leg” animals who are purchased primarily for breeding and producing more “arm/leg animals” to a prize bull a rancher might buy to be his herd sire and produce higher quality calves. The rancher buys this animal for what it will produce IN ADULTHOOD. If the bull has a disease that will likely prevent it from reaching adulthood and reproducing, then what? Fortunately with most mammals like cattle, horses, dogs, etc. we have conquered most of the mystery illnesses and there are tests that can be done so that one can know they are buying a healthy animal free of genetic disorders, syndromes and viruses.
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>>With boas there is no such peace of mind. There is a lot of “out on a limb trust” that goes with buying these animals. When the animal’s health goes south, it’s the buyer’s word against the seller’s word. Who wins?
>>
>>For me - I want to know “as best I can” that my breeders are clear and their babies are clear. I know that my animals appear to be healthy, but I can’t see inside them to know what lurks under the surface – no one can. That is why I want to have them all tested – for my peace of mind and for those who buy their babies. It is still not a 100% guarantee, but a liver, esophageal and gastric mucosa biopsy, and blood panel is way better than nothing and it is the right thing for me to do. Looking the other way, hush-hush and denial is crap when people are forking over lots of hard earned dollars for their dream boa. At some point in time, ethics, accountability, and integrity must play a part in this as well.
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>>Enough typing. I truly wish there was more open dialogue on this subject so we could learn more and all be on the same page. I wish for funding so our dedicated researchers could find the answers that ARE there.
>>
>>Thanks again for everyone’s input on the "Missy" thing. I’m off my soapbox and no more Dead Sea Scrolls.
>>-----
>>Linda Hedgpeth
>>lindafh@frontiernet.net
>>Sierra Serpents
>>
>>"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"

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