Posted by:
LindaH
at Tue Feb 22 19:00:28 2005 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by LindaH ]
You bring out some great points in your post. I have always enjoyed reading them and have wished you would post more.
Jeremy brought up the issue regarding IBD and attitudes about looking the other way. I agreed that many of his points are right on target and added my feelings to the pot.
I also said testing “was right for me”. Never, did I say it was right for him or you. I only have a small handful of adults and “I choose” to have them tested. Never did I say others should. You and Jeremy and whomever out there, who have been doing this a long time, have much more experience with this disease than I. Since IBD is often found in the liver, I chose to include it in my testing for my animals. I remember admitting that there is no guarantee either way that it will be found or that animal is clear. There are a handful of excellent people who have learned to identify IBD lesions pretty well.
I wasn’t directing the ethics part toward anyone specifically. However, everyone I have EVER talked to about this has relayed stories that are very similar to some of the points made. I have been reading about IBD issues, wars and debates on the internet since I began my collection again in 2000. If it hits close to home for some, that’s their issue. IBD may not be the scary monster to some of the bigger breeders as it is to some hobbyists with small collections. If I offended you with my comments about accountability and ethics, I’m sorry. They weren’t directed at anyone specifically….but I said that before. However, anyone who says the “hobby” hasn’t had a pesky little ethics problem relating to IBD has been living on Mars.
Missy had the hard bulge/lump in her midsection beginning in July, before I put him back with her in mid August. The bulge stayed in place and its appearance remained the same until early-mid January when it started getting smaller. That is why I originally had her x-rayed, for Christ’s sake. I cannot say that the x-rays did or didn’t damage anything, but it was the only way – at the time – for us to see what it was. I believe I also said before, I was afraid it was a tumor for a while. You are a pathologist – I am a lay person. Perhaps you would have done something else. I chose this.
In closing, it was not my intention to “imply” that you or whomever should have their animals tested. I said it was right for me. If one of my females is a carrier, I would like to know now – if I can – before I breed her or sell babies down the road – and deal with that heartbreak. There is a possibility the testing would tell me this. There is a possibility it won’t.
I have long wondered if IBD is genetically linked in another way. (For instance, like SCIDS in Arabians. It is a genetic defect that inhibits DNA repair. Animals can be negative, carriers and positives – the positives always die within the first few months of life. Their immune system is compromised and they almost always die from respiratory infections as foals.) It took researchers 25 years to unlock the secrets of SCIDS in Arabians. Now we have a test and people can make informed breeding decisions. Now the hysteria is gone and replaced by knowledge.
If I offended you, I apologize. Mr Hershey will always be my first love and if John ever can’t keep him, he will come right back here and stay until he dies an old cuddly lap snake.
Now, I’m going to go visit my mother and see if she knows me today.
>>Your post certainly implies that if people don't get the testing you advocate that they are not doing the correct thing. When there is no relaible test for the disease, no proof of it's means of transfer and no proof that isolates can transfer the disease(from the IBD fact sheet)I don't feel comfortable subjecting animals to invasive procedures that may have no diagnostic meaning. What if you test all of your animals and none of them have inclusions? Does that prove that the animals still don't harbour the virus in other tissues or at amounts that aren't detectable by the limitted sampleing done. Furthermore is it conclusively know that there is only one strain of the virus and that has a uniform virulence in all of the boids. Varients of the virus with different virulence could easily have an identical histolgic appearance meaning that animals that would never transmit a dangerous virus would be destroyed for no good reason. I am afraid that IBD is a diagnosis that is more frequently made than warrented like. I am not aware of the long term studies that have been performed on boas that show that exposure to all of the chemicals we expose them too isn't the frequent cause of their demise. Do you know conclusively that the plastic that you keep them in or the water that you give them or the bedding that you keep them on isn't contributing to their disease. Symptoms from many different causes can have a similar appearance and if IBD is so prevalent then why haven't more collections been wiped especially where animals that have been co-existing with others are found to have the disease.
>>
>>One whole aspect of this discussion that I haven't heard mentioned at all is that we are working with genetic mutations. I know of no data that has sytematically looked at the different mutations we are working with and proven that they are essentially normal other than a pattern or color trait. You showed xrays of your Motley female below. Do you know from proven data that Motley boas are not more radiosensitive than other boas and that xraying the mother will have absolutley no effect on the growth or reproduction of the babies? There is probably exisiting data about xrays not affecting breeding, although probably very limmited, but I would be very surprised if there is data for different genetic mutations. How do you know the given morph when exposed in utero to xrays won't develop sarcomas or other diseases 10-20 years down the road?
>>
>>I am all for gaining a better understanding of diseases and the health of our animals but I think we should wait until data is really in before we do invasive tests on animals and question the ethics of other breeders.
>>
>>Bill Kirby
-----
Linda Hedgpeth
lindafh@frontiernet.net
Sierra Serpents
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
[ Hide Replies ]
- The last of the scrolls re: breeding, ultrasounds, thanks, & IBD - LindaH, Mon Feb 21 21:38:47 2005
- Dead sea scrolls.........I'd call all this the old testiment. LOL! - JohnLokken, Mon Feb 21 22:16:05 2005
- The last of the scrolls re: breeding, ultrasounds, thanks, & IBD - hogglover, Mon Feb 21 22:56:36 2005
- I would have to say... - bthacker, Mon Feb 21 23:03:25 2005
- The last of the scrolls re: breeding, ultrasounds, thanks, & IBD - Jeremy Stone, Tue Feb 22 00:09:55 2005
- The last of the scrolls re: breeding, ultrasounds, thanks, & IBD - Jeff Clark, Tue Feb 22 00:22:42 2005
- RE: Thank You Linda & Jeremy... more... - Exotics by Nature, Tue Feb 22 11:52:21 2005
- Looking the other way - kirby, Tue Feb 22 12:58:44 2005
- RE: Looking the other way - Jeff Clark, Tue Feb 22 14:53:48 2005
 Hi Bill................>> - LindaH, Tue Feb 22 19:00:28 2005
|
