return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
 
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: How a python change the course of Attenbourgh's life . . . . . . . . . .  Make good choices . . . . . . . . . .  Burmese found on roadside in Wisconsin raises issues . . . . . . . . . .  Short interview with Bryan Suson of Sundown Reptiles . . . . . . . . . .  Happy Earth Day . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake Merch Store . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake returns to Tinley . . . . . . . . . .  kingsnake.com joins Monitor Brains! . . . . . . . . . .  Sneak Peek . . . . . . . . . .  Amphibian gut bacteria showing promise in cancer research . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Meet The Baroness - The world's longest snake . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Updates? . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  The mechanics behind the viper strike . . . . . . . . . .  Snakes on a Train? . . . . . . . . . .  Tracking the animals in the Florida Everglades - Meet the Croc Docs . . . . . . . . . .  Reintroduction attempts give San Francisco Garter a second chance . . . . . . . . . .  Promoting Reptiles is Our Jam Man . . . . . . . . . .  Origins of Chytrid discovered . . . . . . . . . .  Wisdom Wednesday - The Forums - The water is warm... Come on in! . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake.com Past, Present and Future . . . . . . . . . .  IHS Celebrates 50 years . . . . . . . . . .  End of January 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Fun Fact Friday - Green Tree Monitor . . . . . . . . . .  The Evolution of the Osteoderm discovered . . . . . . . . . .  PACNWRS Expo Jan 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Diamondback discovered in new Texas county for first time . . . . . . . . . .  CRE - May 16-17, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - May 16, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - May 17, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - May 22, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - May 23, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Tucson Herpetological Society Meeting - May 25, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - June 03, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  CRE - Jun. 20-21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - June 20, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - June 21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . . 

RE: Legalities of Mangrove snakes in Florida

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Rear-Fanged ]

Posted by: trust at Sat Mar 26 08:34:43 2005   [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by trust ]  
   

Here's the way the law works - the FWC is an administrative agency, tasked with implementing and enforcing laws in an area of law delegated to them by the FL legislature and by the FL constitution.



As with any administrative agency, the state legislature enacts general statutes, and the agency is tasked with creating rules that implement these statutes. There is a procedure by which agencies make rules, and it includes public hearings and notice to the public regarding these hearings. Members of the public are allowed to speak, but the agency doesn't have to give any weight to anything anyone says at these hearings, they just have to have them.



The FL statutes simply state that a permit is required to possess "venomous reptiles," but the statutes don't define what a "venomous reptile" is. Ordinarily that is something an agency would do - they would hold hearings, commission reports, and make a rule defining what an undefined term in a statute means.



To the best of my knowledge, the FWC has never defined the term in accordance with proper legal procedure, resulting in a published rule. I looked into this extensively when I was in law school and taking administrative law. As it stands, enforcement of the statute is left to FWC officer's judgment. They have some very good, knowledgeable people working for them and I've spoken with a few of them. They designate officers in the various regions for enforcing the venomous permits, and essentially whatever that officer says is venomous is venomous.



There is, or at least was when I was researching it, scant little case law in FL on the subject, and none of them challenged the agency rules, or lack thereof. I suspect that was because they dealt with unquestionably venomous snakes, that being native EDBs.



I was of the opinion that one could challenge enforcement of the law because it is vague and arbitrarily enforced ('arbitrary' in the legal sense, not to imply unprofessional on the part of the FWC). Hognesed snakes are OK, while other rear fanged are not, for example. Especially given the research Dr. Frye has published, there is truly a question as to what is 'venomous,' or at least what 'venomous' should mean as a legal standard.



But, seeing as how it would likely cost $8000 - $10000 in legal fees to challenge the law and the FWC, I suspect most people would rather just give up their snakes and pay the fine instead, so it's unlikely to be resolved, and whatever the FWC officers say is venomous will be, effectively, the rule.


   

[ Hide Replies ]


>> Next topic:  Pic of Guinness my FWC - brendanfwc, Mon Mar 7 15:09:37 2005
<< Previous topic:  Reproduction of Hydrodynastes gigas - Ema77, Mon Feb 28 11:06:27 2005

https://www.crepnw.com/ Click here to visit Classifieds Click to visit Classifieds
KINGSNAKE.COM

Enjoy all our content free of charge with a user account that gives you full access to every feature. For added visibility, paid options are available - post in our Classifieds, showcase your business with Banner Ads or a Directory listing, promote reptile events, and more.

Quick Links
Community
Legal & Safety
Support

Register for free ✓ Sign up!

Kingsnake.com ® is a registered trademark © 1997-