Jason,



Your reply just reinforces my point. You don't know, despite any statement you try to make, if any off labeled product you are using is safe or not. Just because you haven't seen any apparent problem, doesn't mean the product can't be harming the reptile. With the exception of "I or someone I know uses it and hasn't seen any problems" you haven't and can't offer any documentation to back your statements. A friend of mine recently had 2 snakes die from pancreatic duct cancer. He has both the knowledge and resources to have been able to perform a post-mortem to determine the cause of death. In this case, he feels that his mite control method used years ago was the cause. These animals survived for several years with no apparent problems, but definitely did have a problem and two of them dying at the same time from the same condition is certainly more than a coincidence. The Sacramento Zoo also reported a higher than normal mortality rate when using a never clinically tested, but supposedly safe, mite control method that is widely recommended.



I and my colleagues do have a tremendous knowledge of what chemicals are being used in general in these formulas. These products, among other things, use chemicals that are of lower quality and purity, resulting in more impurities & higher toxicity's. They also often use a synergist to make the formula more toxic. These raw materials are much cheaper and because they are being used with mammals, they usually will not cause a problem. This is not true with reptiles.



This is why it took years to create a formula that used chemicals that would not cause a problem, both alone and when they were added to other ingredients which can change the properties and toxicity of the overall formula. Other products could never be approved for use with reptiles because the studies required by the USEPA before a product is given an approval would disclose that many of the chemicals or isomers being used can be harmful. Such a formula would have to list such chemicals as an active, since they would have a deleterious effect on the reptile and therefore not receive such approval. These products were only tested for uses associated with mammals and did not have to show that they would not be harmful to reptiles, so none of these ingredients would have to be listed as an active.



You claim Provent-a-mite is identical to other products by stating that our active is the same, yet offer no credentials or proof to back up this statement. If you understood the active, you would know that there is a range the active can be within. The label doesn't tell anything more than the active is within this range, not the purity, quality or toxicity of the active or the other 99.5% of what is in the can. The higher limits of this range can definitely be toxic to reptiles and is also cheaper to purchase. We pay more for our active alone than what the entire formula costs to manufacture for other brands. I can also tell you that all of the inerts of our formula are food grade, FDA approved ingredients. There is also a problem with much more toxic molecules being sold by some sources and the manufactures aren't even aware of this. This is because the EPA isn't performing Q&A testing on the currently produced sources which can and have been shown to be of much lower purity and quality than the data submitted, resulting in a much more toxic molecule. Manufactures are not aware of this and even if their product used a less toxic molecule in the past, is no guarantee that the same molecule is being offered to them today. There is also a major concern about quality control of these products. I direct your attention to this link regarding Qualis and their lack of quality control. www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/g4802d.htm



I suggest you call Mr. Bill Napier at Qualis, Inc. in Des Moines, IA , 515-243-3000 (the manufacture of the product you mention) and ask him if their product is the same formula as Provent-a-mite and if it has ever been tested or is safe to use with reptiles.



It can take many years before it is found that a certain product actually causes health problems with reptiles as is the case with no-pest strips for example. Since no company ever spent the time and money to test them with reptiles, our animals became the guinea pigs. One would never use an off labeled clinically untested product on themselves, family members, dog or cat, so why would one want to allow their reptiles to be used as guinea pigs when they do not know what health problems can potentially occur. If these other products are so safe, why aren't the manufactures going to the EPA and getting a reptile claim added to their label as they would create a larger market for themselves.



We know how important it is to use the highest quality, purest ingredients and to use the greatest care during the formulating and packaging process, because we know that Provent-a-mite will be used to treat ectoparasites on reptiles, not a spray for fabrics, clothes or bedsheets. One can use what they want, but you do not know what really is in the can or the true nature of the chemicals used and the long term effect they could have on your reptiles. This is why a product must receive EPA approval before it can be sold, offered for sale or advertised for a particular purpose.



Bob @ Pro Products
Pro Products

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