Jeff, you say flaming was not your intention but your original post and even this one is a little offensive. You basically called me stupid. But let’s not dwell on your ill manners. I think thoughtful debate on this topic is a much better way to spend our time.



Now it seems you are addressing two entirely different matters here. The first being the difference between CH and CB animals. The other topic regards the import trade of reptiles and morals. I sense you feel strongly about the latter and that's why you respond so strongly. I'll touch on both...



Okay first you say that the benefits of wild blood are dwarfed by the following:



1) Its morally wrong to take an animal from the wild when captive-bred specimens of the same morph exist.



Response: Interesting that this is your first point. Believe it or not I don't support the importation of certain animals such as Boas because I feel that wild populations are threatened. But I don't think it's a great crime to import Ball Pythons because they are abundant as I understand. Also, I have been told that the Governments in Africa regulate the number of animals farmed and exported ensuring the continuation of what is a profitable industry and natural populations of ball pythons. By supporting this trade you may be putting a meal on a poor African family's table. Is that morally wrong? Also, some may say that keeping animals in a wooden box whether they are CB or WC is immoral. What do you say to that?



2) Captive-bred snakes are not parasite-loaded and if from a good breeder, won't have mites, ticks, or disease.



Response: The CH animals I have purchased have never shown any signs of parasites. Also, I believe that Ball Pythons coming from Africa NEVER have mites. They acquire them from private collections. Now ticks are prevalent among wild-caught adults, but I have never seen them on my CH animals. Whether you are buying CB or CH they will be as good as the dealer, period.



3) You cannot distinguish between the two "bloods" to begin with!



Response: No you can not distinguish between the two bloods, but you can distinguish the hardiness of an animal. To me animals that grow fast, eat well and breed successfully have GOOD BLOOD!



You go on to say,



"Its not like BP's have been bred for 50 generations, or even 20 for that matter! You seem to forget (or didn't know initially) that evolution takes GEOLOGIC TIME to occur. Deleterious genes in captivity exist in nature. It’s where they came from. Runts find food in nature, runts breed in nature, and runts die in nature. If they didn't, then the mechanisms and DNA to create them would not exist in our captive populations. Captivity doesn't CREATE genes, ha ha. It just uses the ones already available in nature."



Response: Yes evolution and Natural Selection takes time. And yes these deleterious genes exist in both captive and wild populations. But you seem to forget that inbreeding and artificial selection can magnify the expression of these deleterious genes in a relatively short amount of time... less than 50 generations. You say runts find food in nature and may survive. I agree, but they are less likely to survive and breed when compared to a more robust animal.



"It may not be asinine to not have the same opinion as what I just wrote. Not at all. But I think its asinine to suggest buying wild caught Ball Pythons over captive-bred animals because you think that the wild ones will have better genes!!"



Response: Still insulting, but at least you spelled asinine correctly this time. I never said wild caught now did I? I said I prefer CH over CB.



"Ha ha. Do you know how wild BP's are collected? They collect gravid females, hatch the eggs and ALL the babies are sold. Is this your "natural" selection that you speak of? I'm interested as to how you think that this process acts in an evolutionary sense to weed out the runts and produce stronger blood? REAL interested."



Response: This is how... only the fittest animals will survive and be healthy enough to reproduce. Unlike CB animals they have to overcome many challenges to reach that point. The weak would likely have been weeded out. So stronger parents are most likely to yield stronger babies. Yes there will be runts, but the probability of stronger blood is HIGH! That is BASIC GENETICS.



"So it boils down to either buying animals that were born in captivity by animals already in captivity as oppsed to animals that were born in captivity from animals that were caught in the wild (and then skinned) and then shipped 1/2 way across the globe in conditions that would make your skin crawl. If it makes you happy to think you have a "stronger" snake that ha the fortunate happenstance to by ON TOP of the pile of snakes in the shipment box from Africa, then buy all means, support the farmed BP trade."



Response: I have personally helped the importer I buy from unpack animals from Africa. There were about 5-8 animals per burlap bag packed in wooden crates that were stuffed with newspaper. They were well packed and healthy animals. I guess the guys he uses in Africa are different than you describe. Hope this helps you to sleep better tonight. Though I would not be surprised to learn some animals are imported in that fashion.



Let me close by saying you failed to change my mind. Your argument is weak and based on nothing substantial. I am actually disappointed as I was hoping to learn something. Instead you just confirmed what I already suspected, your just another pompous ass that likes to frequent the forums picking fights.



See Ya,

Oz
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