And now - a complete acknowledgement, sentence by sentence. Let me know if i've missed anything -



"(1) Lack of maturity emotionally in the average child."



I completely understand this, which is why i was talking about the exceptional few that do have the capacity to keep well. I never suggested that any given 10 year old could manage. The problem is that, every now and then, that rare and 'exceptional' 10 year old could be told to go and play with his goldfish on these boards. Perhaps better advice would be to tell him/her to seek out advice of herpers he knows (or to go out and meet some), and get their opinions as well as those on the boards.



"(2) Lack of body mass which makes ven bites much more far dangerous for children."



Another very good point mentioned in your last post. I had read it and agreed, but forgot to acknowledge, so, my apology on that. A point that should most definately be considered.



"(3)Lack of experience-which matters reguardles of age."



Of course. I never said to go out and get a hot as a first reptile. I just said that there's no harm in being introduced into the world of vens (get some handling experience, or merely watch a keeper handle, etc), even with minimal experience - and do it on your own when your ready. Not sooner.



"(4) the fact that we do have a responsibility for the advice we give."



Of course you have a responsibility. But this creates two opposing duties of care. One to the person you're advising - be safe, don't die, etc (lol). The other to yourselves - be safe, don't get sued (lol). So, where do you draw the line?



"Maturity comes (occasionally) with age. There are many adults I have met who are too egocentric or just plain bull-headed to safely keep the animals they long for."



This is true, but irrelevant to those thinking of becoming keepers themselves (other than prima facie - don't do what they did, look what could happen if... etc).



"Maturity Aaron, is the ability to look beyond our personal desires and detach our opinions from our ego's. By so doing one can look at things as they are rather than through the veil of what we want it to be."



Remember, it was not I that brought up the 'ego' argument. I just think that some here are too quick to turn others away, rather than exploring further what type of person is asking the questions. I wasn't referring to anybody specifically. Like you've already acknowledged (i think, somewhere amongst the massively hard-to-follow jumble of threads occurring on the matter), there are some here who are plain rude - few and far between, albeit.



"I have spent quite a bit of time on this because I think you have the potential to be a good keeper. But I have also spent a lot of time because in your "opinions" you have said things which were wrong and encouraged dangerous behavior-telling kids to go ahead and keep hots if THEY feel they are ready-disreguarding responsible advice."



I wasn't really referring to kids here (although you may consider those in early twenties to be so). I was talking about that quiet moment when you sit down with yourself in your herp room (staring at your pythons at 2:00am as they casually flick their tongues at you, and then glancing over at your wall plastered with pictures of vens, in the dead of the night) and ask yourself, "Do i really want to do this? Do i really want to go down this path? Am i/will i be capable?" In your heart of hearts, not just in your inability to control your wants. I'm sure you can pick the moment i'm talking about. Perhaps i should have made this clearer.



"Before you get on my case for the above statement, keep in mind that the average wannabe reads only what he or she wants out of these threads. They glance through these posts looking only for reasons to back their wants. Give a dozen opinions against what they want vs one for and they will defiently hold up the one exception. I have seen this behavior even on this thread. That is the nature of kids."



See para above. Also, if a person is only going to read or acknowledge what they want to hear, then there probably isn't any point in telling them not to anyways. They're only going to go and buy something.



"Finally, this started because you wanted a Death Adder for your first hot and resented early advice to start simpler (It is all here printed on these forums). That you changed your mind proves the value of what we write."



If i didn't consider the value in what those here right, I wouldn't visit this forum still. I did change my mind, for a number of reasons. First, a death adder isn't going to teach me any of the necessary skills to keep other Australian Elapids. Second, after reading the posts, I investigated further, and had several people suggest that a rbb or collett's would be better. That said, I still know highly respected people here in Vic, who have kept DA's all their lives, along with all other Australian Elapids, who recommend DA's as a first hot - these are people who can compare the positives and negatives of each species, first hand - not from what they hear or read.



"That you can consider yourself expert enough to give advice on keeping venomous (which you have here) frankly does not speak so well for your maturity. Good advice comes from experience and yours is minimal."



I never once projected myself out here as an expert. I clearly labelled my beginning posts as being those of a person who has never even kept a hot. That does not mean that i'm not entitled to have my opinion.



"Much has been said about the resentment younger herpers have for those of us with decades of experience. One day you will look at this from the eyes of age and you will appreciate that we wrote here--not because we wanted to put you down, but because we all know the price inherent to this field. That is what maturity is about."



I appreciate what you and others have written. I just don't agree with it all completely (just as others don't). And I don't believe that age is going to change that. I'll let you know in 40 years



"Finally, there is no law saying we have to write or give of our time. That we donate it free of charge should be appreciated-even if the advice is not something you want to hear."



See above paragraph.



Frank, like I said, I've learned a lot here. And, after it all, I still want to keep hots, and I still think that there are some here that are too quick to warn of the dangers, and not tell of the joys. You never read - "That's a crazy idea. It's not for you kiddo. Far too dangerous. Go and get some experience. 10 years worth. 300 hours of training. Play with your corns in the meantime. But in the end, it's all worth it. Rewarding for every second. I risk my life for it - it's great." All too quick to point out the negatives (as negative as they may be) - and before you reply to this, i know - we're talking about life and death here.

[ Show Entire Thread ]