Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In my experience overfeeding is the #1 killer of captive kept boids.

According to GeVo Diagnostik in Germany (a company where boide feces are examined and autopsies performed) even one prey item per week in boa constrictors can cause a fatty liver after several years.

Overfeeding also causes a weakening of the immune system. I have seen undernourished boas kept in very bad housing conditions that were in perfect health. Why? Because of the lack of food their immune system worked extraordinarily well.

Don't get me wrong: I don't want to hype the starvation of the boas here. But WE ALL FEED TOO MUCH in my opinion.
This is even more valid if the objective of the boa keeper is to provide his/her boa with a higher life expectancy.

Last week I talked to a boa keeper in Austria who has a 15 or 16 years old (I don't remember exactly) Brazilian boa c. c.
The animal has almost 10 ft. in length and is weighing 56 pounds.

For 5 years now she gets food only every 2 months. She is in perfect health and doesn't look starved at all (just take a look at the photo).

How many of you guys have a boa that is 15 years old? Surely not many of you. Me neither.
Thus I listened to this guy because when someone has a 15 year old boa in this perfect condition he is worth listening to him.

Another example:

A customer of mine bought a couple of boa c. longicauda cb 1999 several days after they were born (they still had the umilical cords).

In 2002 the female delivered 22 stillborn babies and 27 slugs. That means it could have been 49 babies at the age of 3 years!!! He managed to feed her to an estimated length of more than 7 ft. and estimated weight of 16 pound within 2.5 years.

I predict that this animal will not live to see her 6th birthday.
Just look at wildcaught boas: They are all slender but nevertheless they propagate. The fatest boas are the ones in the vivarium.
A survey in human beings proved that eating less enhances the life expectancy. Just look into the newspapers when the 100- years-old people are published. Ever seen a fat one in the photo?

When I read here that the boa gets 2 jumbo rats every 2 weeks and that she is still eager to grow then I would also gladly see the results of a blood test and a scan of the liver. I suppose that a human being would be brought into the hospital with that results.

But a boa can not complain. Greedy like it is the food is gladly accepted and at the age of 5 - 8 years the animals dies of fatty liver or a bacterial infection.

To answer an unspoken question: My adult males get 1 prey item every 5 - 6 weeks, the adult females 1 prey item every 3 - 5 weeks.

I perform this feeding schedule for more than 1 year now and I have got the feeling that they are doing very well with it.

Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

I agree a snake will not get a feeding oppurtunity every week on the same day. Instead of lengthining the schedule i like to feed 1 every 2 weeks but then randomly create fasts whenever i feel it is needed. Its just hard for humans to understand snakes are not people and they feel bad not feeding it.

I agree totally that most boas are overfed. I really don't think they eat that often in the wild at all. They are predators of oppurtunity. I fed my 4 year Argentine every 3 weeks now. She is about 8ft. But, I also feed her 2-3 jumbo rats. I even feed her once a month at times. She does not become aggressive with this type of feeding either.
I doubt I will ever feed every two months. But, I do believe that a slower grown animal will always be heathier. Too much energy is being used to digest food. Not enough is around for other metabolic activities.
John
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

That powerfeeding is one of the reasons that burms end up with respirotary infections and such. For sure some of it is husbandry....But, I really believe a lot of people powerfeed their burms to get them to a huge size fast. This is one of the biggest reasons I think they die or get sick so young.
John
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

I agree 100%.20 years ago i use to powerfeed everything moving.I ended up shortening there lifespans by half.I have lost pythons and boa's.Im currently feeding my guyana's 1 meal a month and taking my time growing them.I have had them for 4 years now and there the healthiest snakes I have ever had.In the wild they sure as hell dont eat twice a week or if there lucky twice a month.I argue that point with the guys in my herp club monthly,and they never listen.Im glad i read your post and if you dont mind i would like to copy it and take it to my herp club...thank you...Paul.

Whatever helps that feeding schedules change needs to be done.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

My female BCI is 9.5 years old and very healthy. I fed her every week for the first couple of years and every 2-3 weeks since then, mostly every two weeks. She has never had R.I. or any other ailment. I'd like to know if you or anyone else here has had a Boa in their possession for this long or longer and is as healthy. Comments?
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JMHO, FWIW, YMMV.

I have owned her since birth.
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JMHO, FWIW, YMMV.

I had my large female for 10.5 yrs , she was picked up from a petshop at id guess 6 months she was only about 24 ".She was around 9.5 ' when she died this march after giving birth , This was due IMO to a severe icestorm we had in dec and at that time she was gravid with her 2nd litter.and i was out of town working when power was lost and couldnt get home to do anything about it she was w/o power in 19 degree temps for approx one week before i was able to fire up a new generator i had purchased on the way home to her aide.I fully didnt expect her to give birth since she had developed a URI due to temps she was litterally comatose when i arrived home to find her almost lifeless barely a tounge flicker evry 20 min or so i also lost 3 other snakes at that time due to cold temps .However she continued to struggle with her URI untill march of this year when she gave birth to 42 babies -3 slugs and 2 still born all of the survivng babies pulled through and did well and have thrived . however my old female seemed to have used every bit of strength to carry her babies to FULL term to make sure they lived ( which IMO i didnt expect anything other then slugs) she then died about two weeks later i can only speculate that this was due to her giving birth and using ALL her energy and muster to see her babies through. that Boa is sorely missed as she was a trooper through & through i have kept her offspring to carryon her traits ( laterial stripes) and hope to prove her daughter out in the future all in all i have to agree that most if not all captive kept boas are grossly overfed due to our simpathetic minds thinking there HAVE to be hungry they havent ate in two weeks ?!!! in the wild as stated they are oportunist feeders and i would think would only realy eat about 6-10 times yearly unles there on a heavily traveled small animal pathway its not like mother nature is passing out rats and native small game weekly to these animals . Just my thoughts andf opinions merely from a mind of no great scientific ability .... ill leave that for the guys that get paid to study them .
have a good one
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....

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Jonathan Brady
My Kingsnake Photo Gallery

and now I am curious... what kind of schedule do you have your breeders (male & female) on while they are being prepped for reproduction? Thanks.

Hi Hermann,

I also believe in this - 100%. My first boa (BCI) lived for 18 years. She was 9' 6" and about 40 lbs when she died. I feed all my adult boas, on average, 1 large rat every 21 days. The 8'+ ones get 2 rats sometimes when another refuses to eat.

I have argued with my friend that feeding every 5 to 7 day is going to kill his boas at a early age. He thinks I am starving my boas. My boas are all very healthy. I would love to have babies every year from them, but their health comes first.

I consider my boas pets, not just breeders that I have to make money off of.

If all I wanted was money, there are easier ways to make it than breeding boas - I'm not sure what they are, but I'm sure there's something! LOL

Take care,
Tom
McCarthyBoas.com

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McCarthyBoas.com --------- Thanks & Take Care Everyone

Most of what I have read says boas should be fed more during early growing years. What are your thoughts on this? My Boa is almost 2 1/2 years old, 830 grams, and gets 1 Weaned Rat a week. By your standards this seems to frequent. At what age, or size, would you start feeding more infrequently? I am interested in keeping my animal healthy for as long as possible, but I would also like to put some size on him. What is the balance?

Right now I am feeding my boa babies on a 10 - 12 days schedule with 1 prey item that has not a significantly bigger girth than the boa.

But this doesn't mean that this is the best for the health of the boa. Maybe a 14 or more days schedule would be better.

I think my feeding is a compromise between the health of the boa babies and the wish to breed them within a reasonable span of time (4 - 5 years).

Anyway, as soon as they have reached the sexual maturity I pull the brake.

I assume that similar to human beings and mammals the system of the boas is capable to recover from overfeeding (as far as one did not overstep the boundaries too much).
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

Hi,
I think the better keepers/breeders sub-consciencely (sp?)adjust their feeding to the needs of the particular animal they're working with via observation of the animal rather than on any type of schedule. I have noticed over the years that I and other keeper/breeders that I respect and that have been doing this for some time, have tended not to try to feed, say, once a week, but have become better at reading the animals & observing various factors associated with the animals, two of which would be body weight & the general feel of the body. I surprised myself once when I sat down & read my records that I kept on my Emerald tree boas. The adults were being fed around once a month, maybe a little more. I have also noticed, and someone mentioned this in another post, that I tend to give my snakes fasts for one reason or another for short periods. I think it's good for the snakes to go hungry a little bit. It is not anything planned or a conscience thing, I just feel it, and do it. I have never fed on any schedule like every Wednesday night or anything like that. I also tend to feed a little more around breeding season on the females. Again, I think you need to adapt to the animals & go by intuition & "feel" - and that is where experience comes in I guess.
I don't think that Boa constrictors are any different than any other boid in that they are more sensitive to over feeding. Any animal that is grown too much out of it's norm will exhibit health problems over the long haul, especially problems associated with the heart. Herman is correct in 2 ways; you will not see any 100 year old humans that are fat (or that smoke), and snakes that are grown too fast do have their life expectancy shortened. For once Herman, I agree with you. However, feeding as little as you put forth here really doesn't seem, well, it just doesn't feel right in my bones I guess. Maybe I'm wrong, time will tell. If I discover I am wrong, you'll be the first to know ! Thanks,
Paul Edwards

Several years ago it was shown that Burmese PYthons digestive systems atrophy between meals (rest) and actually grow when in feeding mode. Their digestive systems are designed to be in "overdrive" mode with extended rest periods. It isn't an extreme extrapolation to think that most all boids are the same and that frequent feedings keep their digestive systems in an "overdrive" mode, giving them no rest.

I only feed my male madagascar Tree Boas 4-6 times a year. Females are fed large meals until they reach good weight. I never feed them when gravid. Today my female ate her first meal since OCTOBER 2002! That's an 11 month fast. The other female only went 9 months between meals.

I have other boids that are still in growth mode that I feed 1 time per month.

Personally, I think heavy feeding in the first few months or years of life probably isn't as bad as heavy feeding adult boas. Once adult age is reached, there is no real need to feed a male boa more than 6 or less times a year. Females tolerate more feedings, but probably not as much as most people give.

Doug T

I found this very interesting. Besides play with boas, I also do extensive reading on diet, exercise, and related studies and experiments.

In relation to this topic and confirming what we all might suspect, it is interesting to note that there are SEVERAL animal (mostly mammal from what I found) AND human studies that show an overwhelmingly significant relationship between longevity and consumption of a sub-maintenance diet/caloric intake. Basically,

Undereating = Long Life ; Overeating = Short Life

In other words, it is very strongly suggested that consuming a little bit less than calories than needed each day is very closely related to a long life, at least in the studies on humans and mammals that I have read. In fact, this very concept is one that many modern proponents state in support of humans using highly nutritious, calorie-compact meal replacement powders. No, I am not recommending slim-fast or Met-RX for boas.

I do not know how/if this concept translates to reptiles or if any such studies have been done on reptiles. Maybe we have a biologist out there with knowledge on such studies as they would be quite interesting.

Good post and hypothesis Hermann.

I think blaming it on simply overfeeding underestimates the situation. With so little known about the nutritional requirements of this species and reptiles in general, it would be speculative to select calories alone as the reason for the early demise of captive boas. It is just as likely that some other trace element or nutrient is missing or not at the right level in the diet we are feeding and this is leading to fatty livers, immune suppression or increased likelyhood of females to slug out.

Wild boas and snakes in general breed at a much lower body mass in the wild because they are not experiencing the stress of captivity which may be anything from improper temp or temp cycle all the way to reduced air flow and a hundred other factors we can only guess at. In captivity, environmental triggers for breeding are often absent or subtle so we compensate by making our females big and fat so that they will cycle more often even with less than optimal seasonal signals to initiate their cycles.

There are other things that captive boas are exposed to like it is unnatural for a cycling boa to have to reabsorb all that yolk from follicles because she did not ovulate. This probably only happens infrequently in the wild. How do you estimate what the impact of this is on longevity.

One thing I think keepers have overlooked with regards to beating down the powerfeeding of young boas is that these snakes seem to do fine at first and will produce healthy litters. Their early demise may in fact be the result of poor nutrition that is only made worse by early repro. They are getting plenty of calories to reproduce but what about everything else that is required nutritionally. Are the snakes that are dieing the ones that breed early and then breed again the next year? If so wouldn't this suggest something more than excess calories is to blame.

At this point we may be pointing the finger a little too early and possibly at the wrong culprit. It may not be how much we are feeding but what we are feeding. BTW I feed mine rats also.

I bought my first boa in March 1973. She died in July 1999. Not bad. She only gave birth once for me in August 1985.
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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

I have no doubt that most captive boas get too many calories. But I also think Rick has some very good points here. A while back I dipped into Lee McDowell's Vitamins in Animal Nutrition. A borderline vitamin deficiency often causes reproduction problems in a variety of species. IMHO, anything that causes a problem in trout, pigs, and chickens is more likely than not to cause a problem in boas.

Another observation -- a number of years ago I saw the dropping of a boa that was newly arrived in the local pet store. It was full of the big dorsal spines from a green iguana. But in captivity, boas are fed omnivorous domestic rats instead of vegetarian iguanas. Rats tend to get fat, especially larger, older ones, and I wonder how much more fat is in a captive boa's diet compared to the diet in the wild. And if the wild boa's diet contains a significant amount of iguanas, does the ig's gut contents have any benefit to the boa?

Lots of questions and too few answers.

Paul Hollander

is that feeding schedule just for adutls boa, say 5 feet and over or any boa?

any differences between bcc and bci?

thanks... very helpfull

All this talk about calories this, fat that. "Studies have proven", geez this is ridiculous. People think they know what snakes need just because they've kept them for so many years and theyve had so many good breeding seasons. What defines a healthy snake? How do you know how much a snake eats in the wild? I would guess it eats every time is gets the chance, I'm fairly sure I could feed my snake every day and she would gladly eat. I dont do that of course but she would take the meal. Wild snakes are much more active than our pets, I doubt very much that anyone can give a snake as much excersize in an enclosure as it would recieve being wild.

And to whomever said because you smoke or are fat you dont live long, my grandma licoln is 101 and she weighs over 300 lbs and smoked since she was 26 and was an alcoholic. Certain animals are just more genetically healthy than others. The majority of people dont even live to hundred years old, does that mean we all are unhealthy, of course not. I'm sure breeding morphs isnt healthy for a spieces either, theyre mixed with the same common genes.I've had snakes since i was five years old, im not saying im an expert, cause im not an expert, but how can people possibly think they have all the answers? Sure you can say feed your snake once a month and maybe it will be perfectly healthy, but someone else can feed the same snake once a month and run into problem after problem, it isnt the snakes fault or the owners. Sorry im just rambling, I dont know how to say exactly what i want to say. I just hate when people think its black and white.

The health of the prey items would also have to be looked at. Prey items are limited to species in nature Also you can one say an animal is healthy just be looking at it?
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"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer

That snake looks a fair bit over weight to me, jus my opinion i suppose.

I do agree that feeding your adults more then once a month is probably way to much food and does nothing but produce a fat snake. I also think feeding neonates more then one SMALL meal every 2-3 weeks is more then enough food for a growing boa. Of course every snake is different, some snakes were just born to be big and creating an accurate feeding schedule for a group of bas just isn't possible. Some will grow faster then others regardless of how much they eat. I personally watch my boas and let them do the talking. Just because they are active after their previous meal does not mean it's time for another. Feeding a snake who's tail is still stuffed full of the last meal can not be good for the digestive system of that animal. Everybody is in a rush to breed their boas and thus pushes everybody to feed more often. I think my snakes are big and strong for their age and never get huge meals or meals weekly. I'de like Hera to stick around for a few years and grow nice and slow even if it means she will not breed untill she is 7 years old. They are pets first for me, nit potential money makers.
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Got Bats?

youalso have to consider that wild animals are much more active than those that are stuffed into a cage and aren't able to climb, hunt, search for a mate or any of the other natural prcocesses that require active movement from the snake. We've become very acustomed to seeing plump "healthy" boas here on the computer but wild boas are much leaner and other than the parasite loads they carry are probably in much better shape. The lack of mobility (or exercise) I'm sure also creates health problems, especially with an overfed boa. I'v thought that for a while, I'm glad you posted that.

This guy eats about every 4-5 weeks but sometimes more time goes by, sometimes less. She's huge, healthy and very old. and obviously not a boa

I was accused of creating "camera illusions" on the ball forum by someone who saw this pic so here's another pic. She's a big ball, just over 5 feet, not an illusion.

...
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

I agree with your opinion. About a year and a half ago I lost a male bci that was the first snake I ever owned. I kept this snake for almost 21 years. What's more, he was a full grown WC adult when I acquired him. Based on the extensive but well healed scarring along his back I'd estimate his age at that time to be at least 10 years, possibly much more. During the time I kept him I fed him sparingly, especially during the winter months. Towards the end of his long life it was obvious this was a greriatric snake. You could feel his bones creak when you picked him up, and he had the look of an old snake.

Oh yeah, I still have the second snake I ever bought - a male burmese python that is over 20 years old. I bought this snake as a hatchling only a few months old. This snake is also fed sparingly, especially compared to the feeding schedules most burms see. He is in excellent condition and one could not guess how old he is by his appearance.
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Regards,
Bob Garby

It is easy to tell when a snake is hungry, and I feed my snakes when they are hungry. It happens to be about every 2 weeks when they start exploring the cage and flicking their tongue at a million miles an hour. I believe anything less than feeding a snake soon after it is obviously hungry is starvation. How would you like it if your mom said "well, I know you're hungry, but we want you to be lean. You don't get to eat until 2 days from now." I do not starve my snakes. None of my snakes are obese or even close to it. My large male boa is lean for his length, he was weighed a few weeks ago at 17 pounds for an 8 foot boa. The female is 22 pounds at the same length. Those are not overfed or overweight snakes. I would be interested to hear the length and weight of some of your snakes. A boa should not take 7 years to get to full maturity. Snakes eat less in the wild because it is hard to catch prey, not becuase they don't want to eat. That's why many snakes in the wild starve to death. Just because something eats 6 times a year in the wild doesn't mean it should eat that little in captivity. I am not a big time breeder looking to make money, I probably won't even sell many of the babies. I got these boas as pets, and I love them as pets. My feeding schedule will not cause any harm to the boa. Also, have you even seen a boa that is hungry, they're real fun to play with aren't they? Some boas get so hungry they strike the glass. But their owner, thinking starvation will keep them alive longer, refuses to feed for another week or more. Power feeding, like a meal every week or every other day for babies, is way too much and will definitely kill the animal early. But a medium size meal every 2 weeks will not hurt the snake. I also do not feed if it is still digesting its previous meal. This is the best way to gauge a feeding schedule. If the animal has 2 or 3 meals in it, it is being overfed. If it has digested and passed the previous meal, it will not hurt it to be fed soon after. I know many many people with old boas that have been fed this way. I do not know many people that feed as seldom as you recomend. I will continue to feed my snakes the way they would choose to be fed if they had access to rats. You can continue to starve your boas, and they will have the feeding response of a sulawesi retic beacuse of that.

It is easy to tell when a snake is hungry, and I feed my snakes when they are hungry. It happens to be about every 2 weeks when they start exploring the cage and flicking their tongue at a million miles an hour. I believe anything less than feeding a snake soon after it is obviously hungry is starvation. How would you like it if your mom said "well, I know you're hungry, but we want you to be lean. You don't get to eat until 2 days from now." I do not starve my snakes. None of my snakes are obese or even close to it. My large male boa is lean for his length, he was weighed a few weeks ago at 17 pounds for an 8 foot boa. The female is 22 pounds at the same length. Those are not overfed or overweight snakes. I would be interested to hear the length and weight of some of your snakes. A boa should not take 7 years to get to full maturity. Snakes eat less in the wild because it is hard to catch prey, not becuase they don't want to eat. That's why many snakes in the wild starve to death. Just because something eats 6 times a year in the wild doesn't mean it should eat that little in captivity. I am not a big time breeder looking to make money, I probably won't even sell many of the babies. I got these boas as pets, and I love them as pets. My feeding schedule will not cause any harm to the boa. Also, have you even seen a boa that is hungry, they're real fun to play with aren't they? Some boas get so hungry they strike the glass. But their owner, thinking starvation will keep them alive longer, refuses to feed for another week or more. Power feeding, like a meal every week or every other day for babies, is way too much and will definitely kill the animal early. But a medium size meal every 2 weeks will not hurt the snake. I also do not feed if it is still digesting its previous meal. This is the best way to gauge a feeding schedule. If the animal has 2 or 3 meals in it, it is being overfed. If it has digested and passed the previous meal, it will not hurt it to be fed soon after. I know many many people with old boas that have been fed this way. I do not know many people that feed as seldom as you recomend. I will continue to feed my snakes the way they would choose to be fed if they had access to rats. You can continue to starve your boas, and they will have the feeding response of a sulawesi retic beacuse of that.