Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok heres is a short synopsis of my situation.

Ok i have a Anery Boa , 1/12 weeks ago was feeding night as usuall , i proceeded to do the Neck seperation of rats for feeding of snakes. Now in this process these rats set out not in the snakes cages approx. 5 mins before going in cages to be fed at that point none ofthem were showing signs of any movement.Ok so i tossed in the limp rats into cages for feeding went about my buisness. came back and all appeared to have been fine with all rats gone. Now about 3 days later i noticed that my male anery had a swollen spoy just behind his right jaw. this was aboutthe size of a green pea . i pulled him out and made a observation of what appeared to be a bite mark but w/ only one puncture wound. at that time i was not "overly "alarmed by this as it looked very miniscule at best i proceeded to keep a close eye on him over the next week in which it became somewhat more swollen upto about the size of dime area over this past weekend. Now i have moved from my previous vet who was very knowledgable on exotics and that was all he did but he was 250 miles away so i called and got the supposed best vet in my area about 35 miles from me . i called monday in which i was told that she would be available tuesday ( today for an appt) i took my snake and went to her office where i proceeded to ask a few questions about her exp. where at the time i felt comfortable for her to examine my snake . she looked at him and said she would like to take a sample of the inflamed area since it seemed to be a infection and she could possibly get some fluid out and do a lab examine to it which all seemed reasonable.Well she too my snake and walked into the back where i could overhere her and her techs googling over how beautiful he was and how he was the calmiest snake they had seen in the office . she came back and explained how she used a hypodermic needle to draw some fluid and would have tests run to it for further information to it and prescribed Amikacin for the infection and proceeded to go into the way i should inject the meds into him now this is where i became irate with her . she told me that i needed to inject this medication DIRECTLY to the area in question which is the head of my snake which i questioned her logic of injecting a medication to a snakes head where her reply was that she was the one with the DVM in medicine and she knew what she was doing this was a injection of approx .4 milliters i felt very uncomfortable of how she did this and reluctantly paid my bill and left her office well on the 35 mile drive home as i got home and pulled my prized anery out to bring him back to his enclosure i was horrified to find his head swollen to the size of a ping pong ball and mouth severly swollen with gums puffed up and lips turned out , he is very larthargic and doesnt seem to be doing well at all at this point he is still alive at this point but to be honest i think he wont make it through the night due to this butchery by this so called "Vet".
If anyone here may have any feedback with the use of Amikacin injected directly to the cranial area of a snake and or any illside effects of this medication please respond . i will be calling my old vet first thing in the Am to see if there is anything that can be done if my snake is still alive in the morning

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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....

Well, small animal amikacin if I remember correctly is 50mg/ml. The usual dosage is 5mg/kg for reptiles initially, then 2.5mg/kg thereafter. That would equate to .1cc per 2.2lbs. roughly. So, at .4ml or .4cc your snake must weight around 8.8lbs. If amikacin is overdosed you risk renal(kidney) failure. As for the swelling....allergic reaction?? Pierced the trachea??? It's been a long time since I had to deal with amikacin(YEARS) so my numbers might be off, but I think the above numbers are accurate. I had a large retic get a wound on the gumline years ago, and my vet instructed me to inject the amikacin IM. The wound healed promptly and I had no problems whatsoever. I hope your animal pulls through, or atleast holds on until you can seek more qualified help if this current vet does indeed turn out to be less than qualified(which at the time she appears to be). Take care.

Paul

thanks for the reply ... however the dosage from your numbers would be overly high. i looked again and the syringes are loaded to 3units so i am guessing its 3 mg and this snake is no where even close to 8.8 lbs hes more like 2 lbs if that. as far as peirced trachea im not sure about that but hard to tell to me it looks like a severe allergic reaction , or possiblly more im not expert in medications as this is really the first time other then a few resp infections and baytril injections .i did try to call this "butcher' for lack of giving her the glory of using the term Vet and they were closed i will be making a call back to her in the am and aslo calling my old vetwhich is 200 miles away for a second opinion on the medication dosage and side effects of this procedure that was done . in hignsight i wish i would have made the trip to him as he was very good in his work and i trust him in his dessicions 100% as he was my main vet for over 10 yrs ....

as for now my lil guy is still very larthargic and has very little muscle grip when handled which is just to make sure hes still alive when i check in on him about every hr .
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....

Well, the numbers shouldn't be high...I just looked at a label for amikacin(right on the bottle). It is 50mG/mL for small animal amikacin. The recommended dosage for dogs is 10mg/kg. I would almost bet the 5mg/kg initial dose for snakes is correct. As far as the syringe saying 3 Units...I have syringes which say 30 Units on them and they are 3/10 cc syringes. If she did dose your 2lb. snake with .4 cc of amikacin at the 5mg/kg dosage then she overdosed your animal(That would be about 20mg/kg double what is even recommended for dogs). At around 2lbs. the dosage at 5mg/kg would be closer to .1cc provided she used small animal amikacin, which I can't see why she would use large animal amikacin which is 100mg/kg. Did she even weigh your snake before deciding on a dosage??? Make sure you have mG and mL correct. The syringe will be in mL. If you thought I was saying(or if I accidently put) a dosage of 5mL/kg yes, that would be WAY HIGH! That would equate to 250mg. Basically one CC is 50mg. So to get 5mg from a 50mg/ml product you need .1 cc per kg or approx. 2.2lbs. I hope this isn't just confusing the hell outta ya! Just be sure your animal stays hydrated. If she did overdose him, and he was dehydrated, he'd probably already be dead. Best of luck, please let us know the end result. Take care

Paul

Pauls info about the dosages sounds correct to me and Id have to agree it sounds like hes alergic or she stuck the needle to far. "If she did overdose him, and he was dehydrated, he'd probably already be dead." Paul Ive seen it take months in some animals when this happened. Becuase of their slow metabolism when their kidneys shut down it can take a long time to build the toxins levels high enough to kill the animal.
Like paul said though make sure you hydrate that animal well. As soon as you get little life in it and it has some control, soak it well a couple times a day for a while. Anyway best of luck, let us know what happens, I gotta go get my second cup of coffee and wake up LOL
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Jason & Danica
Heads I win tails you lose. Get out of my way I am coming through. Roll the dice and dont think twice when we crush....crush....crush em...crush em! Now I lay you down to rest. You'll never be more then second best! Megadeth
Classic Dums frozen feeders

Thanks for the additional info. Give me a call sometime I'm wanting to pick up some mice from you at one of the next shows if possible. James said to tell you Thanks for the deal on the balls also, said they're feeding great! Talk to you later.

Take care,

Paul
(Not as old as I seem to be....LOL)