Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Website says no venomous.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

I spoke with a vendor for the hot show and they said that it is upstairs and 100% seperate from the other show. He said it opens Friday and runs throught the weekend.

No, it still runs along with the main show, it is just upstairs. But the word now is NO show due to a few reasons.

Those reasons being?????????

Well for one the show didn't draw nearly enough people the three years they had it, well maybe except for the first year. Plus due to FL permit system, folks cannot just walk in and leave with the snake the buy. If you live out of state and do not possess a FL Venomous permit, than the snake has to be shipped back to you. Many of the people who I spoke with said they didnt make nearly enough for it to be worth it. Out of curiosity, what vendor says the show is still on?

Hot Herps

I talked to Matts wife not that long ago and she said it was going down...........weird.

That really sucks cuz im going down there for the first time and I was stoked about it. No hot shows in Wisconsin obviously. I wouldnt even go now if I didnt need to add a male super dwarf retic for next years breeding season...........Bummer.

My email from Wayne Hill said "No hot show, as of now, Please visit our website http://www.reptilebreedersexpo.com "

I think Hank Molt ran it....any questions should be directed to Hank.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Having been to a couple of shows (that will remain nameless) I can honestly say that its probably a good thing that this isn't happening. Although there are some fantastic people in the industry who maintain the highest of standards, I also know plenty of vendors who will sell just about any hot herp to just about anything or anyone that has a pulse; real scary stuff. Until there are stricter regulations/requirements, I personally don't like to see reptile shows that allow venomous (or, at the very least, they shouldn't be allowed to be sold at the event but rather, herps can be shipped after the event). I know this will open up a big can of worms but I am sick of seeing unscrupulous breeders who are in it for the wrong reasons and am even more disheartened to see how many inexperienced folks are purchasing venomous reptiles....nice recipe for continued reptile bans that are running rampant. I am 100% in favor of private rights to own venomous herps as long as it is done properly.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>My email from Wayne Hill said "No hot show, as of now, Please visit our website http://www.reptilebreedersexpo.com "
>>
>>I think Hank Molt ran it....any questions should be directed to Hank.
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>>1.1 Blackheaded pythons
>>1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
>>2.1 Aussie Olives
>>1.1 Timors
>>1.0 Angolan Juvie
>>1.1 Savu
>>1.1 Juvie Bloods
>>1.1 Juvie Balls
>>1.1 IJ Carpets
>>1.1 Coastal Carpets
>>1.2 Macklotts
>>1.1 Papuan Olives
>>1.0 Jungle Carpet
>>2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
>>0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
>>0.1 child, CB
>>0.1 wife, WC
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob...

I read your post, and I'd have to agree with the essence of it...If one questions many vendors' motives, one simply has to look at the proliferation of burms, iguanas, retics, etc. in the market today. These vendors weren't overly concerned with where these animals were going or what kind of care they were to receive...Rather, they were more concerned with lining their pockets at the expense of the animals' welfare....

When venomous reptiles are included, it just gets downright scary....Yes, large constrictors (no matter how "tame" ARE dangerous animals in their own right...no argument there...They should be respected as such....But passing around Gaboon vipers, Echis and Naja in large public areas is an accident waiting to happen. Don't get me wrong...I'm not flaming ALL vendors...many are responsible individuals that do what they do for the genuine love of the animals, but (as illustrated by the asenine laws in many parts of the country) it only takes one knucklehead to screw things up but good...Just ask the fine citizens of Alabama.

"Herpers" have demonstrated a remarkable tendency towards apathy regarding such things, and as a result government intervention has resulted. When the community should have been "policing it's own", we were busy flaming each other over "venomoids" and other such things...Go figure, huh? It's hard to build a boulder out of individual grains of sand....

-Steppin' off the soapbox and takin' deep breaths...

-Kris

>>Having been to a couple of shows (that will remain nameless) I can honestly say that its probably a good thing that this isn't happening.

I understand your sentiment, but this was perhaps the one show in the country that was doing it exactly right (at least last year).

Venomous was in a separate hall from everything else.
No kids allowed.
Vendors were checking permits.
Vendors held your purchased until you were ready to leave the building.
Fish and Game was there IN UNIFORM, inspecting boxes and permits before walking you out of the building.

Unfortunately, I think this show will likely never recover from what Fish and Game was reportedly doing last year. Instead of making their presence known and checking before people left, they were apparently waiting outside busting out of state visitors who purchased without knowing they needed a Florida permit to transport. My tax dollars at work.

Fish and Game was there IN UNIFORM, inspecting boxes and permits before walking you out of the building.

Unfortunately, I think this show will likely never recover from what Fish and Game was reportedly doing last year. Instead of making their presence known and checking before people left, they were apparently waiting outside busting out of state visitors who purchased without knowing they needed a Florida permit to transport. My tax dollars at work.

So which was it?????

Shane
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Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

>>Fish and Game was there IN UNIFORM, inspecting boxes and permits before walking you out of the building.
>>
>>Unfortunately, I think this show will likely never recover from what Fish and Game was reportedly doing last year.

Oops, this should read "reportedly doing the year before last."

Rob,
Well, I guess you won't be attending my show at the IHS this June! Thats too bad, I think you would enjoy it, your crony Tim Cole is a vendor.

Randal

I didn't get the impression that Rob wouldn't attend your show but that he wants people to be responcible within reason for what and who they are selling to.

He did say " Although there are some fantastic people in the industry who maintain the highest of standards, I also know plenty of vendors who will sell just about any hot herp to just about anything or anyone that has a pulse; real scary stuff. I am 100% in favor of private rights to own venomous herps as long as it is done properly."

Randall, does my having you as a vendor at my shows make us cronies? I've drank more beers with you than I have with Rob! LOL
hopefully that will change this summer.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Randall, I am going to have to buy you a few drinks when I come to the IHS (just depends on when my wife scheduled our family vacation)...like I said, there are many great people who hold high standards like Tim who I fully support and would not hesitate to visit as an exhibitor at IHS. I was simply expressing my own personal observations having gone to several reputable events; like anything, you have your good folks and your rotten apples but when it comes to venomous, we can't afford a single rotten apple. If done well, and I am sure you are going to run a tight ship at IHS, there is no reason why it can't be done responsibly and ethically...and I am looking forward to seeing old friends and having a great time.

>>I didn't get the impression that Rob wouldn't attend your show but that he wants people to be responcible within reason for what and who they are selling to.
>>
>>He did say " Although there are some fantastic people in the industry who maintain the highest of standards, I also know plenty of vendors who will sell just about any hot herp to just about anything or anyone that has a pulse; real scary stuff. I am 100% in favor of private rights to own venomous herps as long as it is done properly."
>>
>>Randall, does my having you as a vendor at my shows make us cronies? I've drank more beers with you than I have with Rob! LOL
>>hopefully that will change this summer.
>>-----
>>Tim Cole
>>www.Designeratrox.com/
>>www.AustinReptileService.net
>>www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
>>Conservation through Education
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob,
I'll take you up on the offer of the free drinks!
Seriously, this is what I picked up from your previous post.

"I personally don't like to see reptile shows that allow venomous (or, at the very least, they shouldn't be allowed to be sold at the event but rather, herps can be shipped after the event)."

As Tim knows, I run a very strict and tight ship at our shows.
We (my wife and I) verify proof of age, and residency of any and all "customers" who purchase venomous reptiles. The vendors are required to do that also, and must turn in a waiver to me or one of my staff BEFORE exiting the premises.

Agreed, we can't control what a person does with his purchase after he leaves my show, but no one can. I have stopped sales and I have told my vendors also not to make a sale if they deem the person is not respondsible or knowledgible about their pending purchase. The vendors are held liable for their sale, NOT the promoters. Tell you what, if we didn't regulate like we do, it would still go on in the hotel rooms, parking lot, etc.
I have attended reptile shows for over 16 years and beleive me, I've seen a lot of venomous reptiles sold out the back door at non-venomous shows.
If you would like, I'll email you a copy of our requirements for vending venomous reptiles at our show.

Our vendors are established and knowledgible people who I trust that will not sell an animal to someone that they deem "questionable" To do so would surely spell the end of our shows and the vendor will also pay the price.

BTW, to clear things up, our show is held in conjunction with the IHS. Our show is at a different location (about 20 miles north)than the IHS meeting. Our show happened to be scheduled during the same weekend as the IHS and as an added bonus, attendee's can attend our show during the same time.

I urge everyone to attend as we have a terrific line up of speakers, and yes, we have Tim Cole speaking,,,sigh,,,
The 30th IHS will be a barn burner!

Randal

Randal, I know that you run the kind of event that is the model for others to follow; hopefully, it will rub off on the other promoters. There are many things we can't control but as long as the protocols are in place, as you described, there shouldn't be too many problems. But I do have to admit that there is just a certain weirdness to this whole idea of going to a breeder show and purchasing a potentially deadly venomous snake inside a deli cup off of a table...but hey, I guess we've come a long way from the day where just seeing a corn snake was considered something magical.

>>Rob,
>>I'll take you up on the offer of the free drinks!
>>Seriously, this is what I picked up from your previous post.
>>
>>"I personally don't like to see reptile shows that allow venomous (or, at the very least, they shouldn't be allowed to be sold at the event but rather, herps can be shipped after the event)."
>>
>>As Tim knows, I run a very strict and tight ship at our shows.
>>We (my wife and I) verify proof of age, and residency of any and all "customers" who purchase venomous reptiles. The vendors are required to do that also, and must turn in a waiver to me or one of my staff BEFORE exiting the premises.
>>
>>Agreed, we can't control what a person does with his purchase after he leaves my show, but no one can. I have stopped sales and I have told my vendors also not to make a sale if they deem the person is not respondsible or knowledgible about their pending purchase. The vendors are held liable for their sale, NOT the promoters. Tell you what, if we didn't regulate like we do, it would still go on in the hotel rooms, parking lot, etc.
>>I have attended reptile shows for over 16 years and beleive me, I've seen a lot of venomous reptiles sold out the back door at non-venomous shows.
>>If you would like, I'll email you a copy of our requirements for vending venomous reptiles at our show.
>>
>>Our vendors are established and knowledgible people who I trust that will not sell an animal to someone that they deem "questionable" To do so would surely spell the end of our shows and the vendor will also pay the price.
>>
>>BTW, to clear things up, our show is held in conjunction with the IHS. Our show is at a different location (about 20 miles north)than the IHS meeting. Our show happened to be scheduled during the same weekend as the IHS and as an added bonus, attendee's can attend our show during the same time.
>>
>>I urge everyone to attend as we have a terrific line up of speakers, and yes, we have Tim Cole speaking,,,sigh,,,
>>The 30th IHS will be a barn burner!
>>
>>
>>Randal
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

"but hey, I guess we've come a long way from the day where just seeing a corn snake was considered something magical."
Ain't that the truth. I remember seeing my first one under a concrete slab in an old barn foundation in the middle of a field. Over 40 years ago..still remember it like yesterday. Kid next to me grabbed it while I was admiring it
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Being "cronies" is not a bad thing!

I have been to all the venomous shows at Daytona. After the comedy of the first year, Fish and Game has continued to improve their supervision. I scarce noticed they were there (not that they weren't visable, they just kept their distance and watched)and I bought three snakes.

The level of caution in handling was high. All vendors I dealt with demanded to see licenses and followed excellent safe protocol when preparring specimens leaving their care.

This is one show that should go on because it sets an example of how a venomous show should be done.

Some of the other shows could learn from how this one was handled.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I called him hoping that there was an outside chance that it was all a really bad rumor. It of course isnt. No show. He said it had alot to do with insurance issues and vendors not doing well.

What?

"Some of the other shows could learn from how this one was handled." your quote.

What shows? Besides the former (Daytona) there is only South Carolina, Orlando, Fl. and Hamburg, PA and my shows in Texas that allow venomous snakes.
So I guess what I'm asking, what shows could learn from Daytona?
BTW, I was the manager for the first two "hot" shows at Daytona.

Randal

Frank,
I forgot, We have been doing venomous shows before I came on board for Daytona's shows.

Randal

i go to one(h'burg)...i like them,for the most part(the wc poachers do piss me off/disgust me)...but all hot shows will be gone soon enough,i fear.