Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a recent pic of my male Hypo Everglades Rat. He's an 05 baby. Coloring up rather nicely.

my pair is really small... and still have their patterns..

when did yours start to change..?

Personally, my pair from Jim Merli were showing distinct hints of orange when I got them at about 3 months age. Yours shows a differnt look than mine and may actually be a softer look than the vivid orange of the NODAK's snake. I personally like both looks a lot.

Gorgeous snake dere NODAK (doncha know). Dat deres a really bright one fer dat young age. (...and a heartfelt "Yah Hey" to everyone up there. I did a 6 yer stint at Grand Forks)

I myself am an import, but I grew up in this area. And still here. But yeah, there are some people that talk that way alright! LOL!
Russell

That's a great shot and a great looking snake. Shows the typical leucistic rat behavior
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

Thanks! But I have a female gray rat that would put any of the tempermental texas rats I've ever had to shame! She's pure nasty! Will NOT hesitate to chew on you! But she's such a pretty white oak variety, I'm keeping her. That baby Leucistic is now getting mellow. Still a bit flighty, but not out to eat you!
Russell

When I got them in, they certainly did have more pattern than now, were a lighter color, but already had some color showing. Here is a pic not long after I got them in.
Russell Keys

That looks like the Love line I have. Who did you get them from?? Any history on them??

Thanks Jason

I just saw your name and realized I am dumba$$. LOL I didn't recognize the screen name. Sorry. That is a nice snake though. He is coloring up very nicely. I picked up a female from a unrelated line to cross into mine in a couple of years and I am looking for one other female. So I had hope for a second.

Later Jason

Yes Jason,
I got them both from YOU! LOL! It's alright, there's no way you can remember everyone you sold stuff to! Yes, they certainly are turning out nice! Thanks!
Russell

I can remember one name per person... barely. When I saw your name it rang a bell but to be honest I had to go check my old emails to be sure. Hows that albino rat/corn/??? doing ? Here is a pick of the mother incase you never saw her.

Later Jason

Jason,
I sold that guy. A gal at a show I took him along with to wanted him as a pet. I told her the whole story and yes, even the picture of the female. I never got any calls saying he didn't do good for her. He ate just fine for me. I try to keep everything in pairs, and concentrating on corns mainly, so thought I'd better let him go to make room for some high end corns I got in. But I enjoyed him while I had him! Thanks again for the Everglades, I can't praise them enough! Turning out so nice! They sure have tempers though! But then, I'm not into handling my snakes all that much. So it's my fault really if they turn out to be a bit flighty...and bitey! LOL! Anyhow, will keep in touch with you, I might get a normal Everglades from you down the road.
Russell

ok i have to ask,at risk of recieving hate mail,lol...are you fairly certain of that being pure rossalleni?i read furter into the thread that it's from the 'love' blodlines-i have seen quite a few baby 'glades rat,incl. some hypos,and that snake in your pic just looks so much oranger-are you sure it's not infused with some 'creamsicle corn','bubblegum rat',or some other phase name the loves use?it would be understandable to do so in an attempt to acheive more vivid orange coloration...of course the resulting intergrades should be labeled/sold as that,intergrades...hey either way,that's a pretty snake.btw not really trying to open a can of worms.

I read that bubblegum rats were formed partially using glades blood. If you were looking to add vivid orange to an american ratsnake line where would you rather get it than from a really good glades?

From what I've read (and we could always just hope one of the Loves is reading this and chimes in) their line of glades were just bred from the best glades they could find and selected down to the most brightly colored offspring they produced. Just looking at how much variation corn breeders have been able to extract from that one species it's not too surprising to me that some breeders have managed to intensify the already existing orange coloration in glades.

One of these days I've got to get me a pair of really flashy glades.

Regards
John

hey john...i was really thinking of some of the deeper orange,(e.g. 'bloodred')patternless or less conspicuously blotched corns,like some hypo striped ones i had in the past-yeah the bubblegum rats did have glades rats in them,as well as i think albino black rat.so you're right,those would not make for a more orange everglades rat snake....for that,the corns would be the way to go.and that of course would make a hybrid not just an intergrade,with corns being an entirely different species from the rossalleni,despite so much similarity.

But I don't see any need to bring hybridization in to account for a nicely colored glades.

If you look at the color and pattern range in obsoleta (black, yellow, grey, orange, brown, green, white, solid, blotched, white-sided, striped and even combinations of several of these choices) you get the idea that this is a very variable species.

So the fact that selective breeding of an already quite orange looking population yields even more extremely colored snakes surprises me not at all. I work with orange-phase texas rats and even within a single clutch I'll note quite a range of orange coloration and even a few hypo-looking individuals.

Now, can I prove that there isn't anything else mixed in with the glades in those nice looking ones above?

No.

Do I think it very likely they are pure.

Absolutely.

Regards
John

Well from what I got from the Loves over the years the hypo glades I have from them are pure glades. The bubblegum rats are a mix with the glades but they where not breed back into the glades. They have been out crossed over the years to other glades including WC animals years ago but that is about all that has been added in.

I have seen other glades that have more yellow rat in them and that might be what you are referring to. There are also the WC glades from now a days that are basically yellow rats with a hint of orange that are sold into the trade to unwary buyers or uneducated people who then breed them to real glades. If you look at most wholesalers list from Florida they have glades for sale all year long. That would mean they are still common... or they are not glades.

I have a normal adult female from the Loves I will post a pic of for you to look at. With the hypo trait lacking you might think more of them.

later Jason

don't want to imply or assume anything,or accuse anyone of bad business,etc...it's just something that crossed my mind,and something i would have to ask about if it was me making the purchase-i am very suspect of things like that in the trade,i see it happen a lot....call me paranoid,whatever...i have long heard a tell tale sign of a true rosssalleni is a red tongue...recently i heard someone say that they also have orange,not yellow,throats(i am less convinced of this second 'trait's authenticity,having only heard it once,recently-plus if this were true,that means pretty much every glades rat i've seen is mixed with yellow rat-so i have my doubts about the latter id trait)....now if one bred a deep red patternless/'motley'/striped,etc. corn to a glades,i think many would be none the wiser-hell there may be no obvious way to differentiate between the two....i was thinking about a corn's more strongly patterned belly,but the striped corns i had had clean(no pattern) bellies,just like the glades rats i've seen...so i think it could be done with out a lot of people knowing any better...but let's hope not.

One big problem with your theory is the corns you are thinking of are all newer morphs and the hypo glades has been around for quite a while. If they showed up today I would be with you. In fact you may be right about it with the cross being done in France (I think) and then being sold to the Loves but I hope not. There is of course no way to be sure what happened 30 plus years ago or ten years even but for the Loves I never heard anything from them about this line being anything but pure. There is also a Marcia Lincoln line out there that has the same history before the hypo trait made it to the US but was taken in a different direction after a couple years by Lincoln. In the beginning both lines where one and where breed to each other but then they separated and went their own directions. Lincoln's hypo line is more red I have been told. But I have also seen it referred to as a albino line. I have no first hand experience with it (Lincoln Line) for the record though.

Later Jason

This snake is pure Everglades. I got it from someone I know and trust. Even has a youngster, it showed knopw evidence of Corn Snake patterns. It has an orange tongue and red eyes. Although Jason perhaps disagrees with me, that is generally a good marker of pure Rosselini. To the best of my knowledge, the person who had this snake does not even keep Corns. I have never seen a Glades with more vivid coloring and I am 100% confident this is a purebred Rosselini.

Very nice snake. Who's line is that from?? As far as the tongue and eye deal I just think it is a secondary characteristic that can be found in yellow rats far outside glades range. But very nice snake.

Later Jason

Although several generations removed, it originated form the Marcia Lincoln snakes.

Cool. How many do you have from that line and are you breeding any??? I was going to guess Lincoln from the pic because of the redder color or deeper orange if you prefer. All I have seen from that line have been in pictures. I would like to see one in person someday.

Also when you say removed from the Lincoln line what do you mean?? Was it breed to Love stock or WC glades???

Later Jason

Love Stock
I will only have some hets this year. My amel female is too small this season. She continues losing a few spots of pigment with each shed. I'm dying to see what the next 3 or 4 sheds bring with her.