Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

I need some clarification on using earthworms as frog feeders. I keep Malaysian leaf frogs and am looking for ways to expand their diet. I've read various things about earthworms and am a bit confused. Are "earthworms" and marketed "red worms or wigglers" the same species? I think night crawlers will be too large for my frogs. Is it true the mucous coat on red worms can be too bitter tasting for herps? I've read not to feed them on a compost pile, but what is the better bedding/food to gutload them with instead? If the worms are cultured in a compost pile by the grower how long must they be fed another gutload before they can be used safely?

Many thanks for your help!

no earthworms and red wrigglers are not the same species, but both can and should be fed to amphibians. i have never had any problems with any of my amphibians rejecting a worm, most of the frogs and salamanders go nuts when they see them. if you think that a full grown nightcrawler is to big for your leaf frog then simply cut the worm in half, some people thinks its gross, but the worm is about to be eaten, so getting cut in half first won't really effect it much. i don't see a problem feeding store bought reds to your frog, as i said, i have never had any problem feeding them, but i also prefer to dig up worms from my yard to use as feeders, that way they are naturally healthy and i don't have to worry about trying to keep them fed well in captivity, i just collect them as i need them.
as for trying to keep captive worms healthy in between feedings, i would suggest adding a mixture of salad greens, leaf litter from outside ( as long as you don'y have your yard sprayed with pesticides, that goes for collecting worms as well)and decaying tree branches. worms are known as detrivores, they are a type of animal that decomposes organic tissues, so any kind of "rotting" organic material, as long as it does not ferment, like fruit or dead animals, can be used as a food source for worms.

2.0.0 whites treefrogs
0.1.0 mexican leaf frog (P. dacnicolor)
1.0.0 golden treefrog
0.0.1 green treefrog
1.0.0 southern leapord frog
1.0.0 asian greenback frog
2.0.0 green frogs
0.0.1 bullfrog
1.0.1 smokey jungle frogs
2.0.0 pixie frogs
1.0.0 pac-man frog
3.0.2 fire-belly toads
0.0.1 yellow-belly toad
1.0.1 fire-belly newts
1.0.0 blue-spotted salamander
0.1.0 yellow spotted salamander
1.0.0 barred tiger salamander
1.1.0 blotched tiger salamander
1.0.0 eastern tiger salamander
1.0.0 gray tiger salamander
0.0.4 koi
0.0.1 fantail comet
0.1.0 green iguana
1.0.0 german shepard
1.0.0 quaker parrolette

Worms are an excelent souce of diet for your amphibian and do not need to be supplemented. I have heard of frogs rejecting Red Worms (smaller species of worm) due to their taste but I never noticed much of a problem (I also tried them with dwarf leaf's but only 3 out of 5 would actually go near them). Now, make sure if you are going to add worms to your frogs diet that they are farm raised or from a reliable source. I have heard that some places actually use chemicals dumped into the soil to get worms to crawl out to be caught (Im not 100% sure if this is still done but I wouldnt want my frogs eating those).

Red worms in the pet trade tend to Eisenia species (often E. foetida) which have an acrid yellowish secretion that many amphibians find distasteful but some will take then depending on how hungry they are.

As for gut loading, worms if kept in a calcium rich substrate have a positive calcium to phosphorus ratio, if you do not keep them in a calcium rich substrate then they will need to be supplemented with a multivitamin dust like other feeders. Earthworms (lumbricus) are not typically cultured due to thier very slow reproductive rate and as a consequence are collected from the enviroment. This has another potential side risk that the worms could be carriers for chytrid. If you purchase the earthworms, keep them in a container and feed them for several days to give them a chance to replenish lost fats and protiens as they are typically kept in nutrient poor substrates (like peat moss or newspaper pulp). As a further point if you use earthworms, they can cause false positives on fecal checks as the earthworms are typically full of nematodes and while these nematodes do not infect the frogs, the eggs are passed undigested, so if you get a fecal check done, make sure the vet tech knows this fact.

I would not use earthworms as a major staple in the diet for anuran as there has been at least one study that demostrated a disease of the muscle tissue in bullfrogs fed an exclusive diet of earthworms.

Ed

Hey Ed, this is good information to know. Ive got a quick question. With my Worm culture/gutloader (seeing as they never breed ) I was wondering how you would make it more Calcium Rich. I currently use a good grade Loam/Peat/sand(very very small amount) w/ Leaves/Carrots/Potato skins as a food source and add crushed Egg shells to keep the acidity down. Is there anything else I can or should be adding?(I know there must be 100 different ways of going about this, but im just curious what might be the best for improveing calcium levels). Is Limestone a good option?

Almost any calcium carbonate source that is fine enough for the earthworms to ingest will work well. You can even use the calcium sands they sell for reptile cages.

Ed

Thanks for the reply, ill keep useing my egg shell then.

I think they are different species. Anyway, if you buy them, they come in a little container. You do not need to add anything to it, they just feed on the dirt that comes with it. To make have a longer shelf life, put them in a fridge. I heard nightcrawlers and other earthworms are almost nutritionally balance, so they are good for your frogs. But I find, my White's tree frogs don't particularily enjoy them.

They are only nutritionally balanced if they are kept in soils with a significant calcium source. The soils in the containers are usually either peat moss or recycled composted wood pulp neither of which is calcium rich. As these "soils" are also lacking in nutrients the worms have been consuming thier tissues which is why they should be fed for at least 48 hours before feeding them to the amphibian.

Ed