Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's my male Beccarii

Last ones for a while...

but that one appears to be somewhat dehydrated... Now I say appears because it may not be so.. but I've seen quite a few pictures of other beccarii and they were a bit more fleshed out.. not with fat but just in terms of tail width, leg width etc and generally good hydration. His tail seems thin and somewhat dry as I've seen in other dehydrated monitors... and his legs a bit more bony than they should be. I'm not sure how long you've actually had him or what his conditions are in his enclosure but I'd take a re-check of humidity...at different times throughout the day... not just when you've misted or sprayed...
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
5.11.Leopard geckos (1.2 Blizzards (Caine, Phoenix, and Mirage), 0.2 Tangerine Albinos (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short, and Casper), 1.0 Tremper Albino (Mycah), 0.3 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, and Aris), 1.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas), 1.0 Full Stripe Chocolate Tremper Albino (Discord), 0.1 pastel (Raven) and 1.2 Normals)
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros) (R.I.P. November 18, 2005)
13 rats (plus pups)
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Ashe and Hercules)

Hello
I've had him for about 1 week. He already has put on a little more weight. He came in a little dry and thin. His enclosure stays at about 75-80% humidity and raises from 85% to 90% when the rain system is activated. He is in a shower stall enclosure. Hydration is a key factor in keeping these monitors sucessfully. In time he will bulk up and fill out. Thanks for your keen observations. Good eye.
RoadSpawn

Ahhh... thats good to hear. I'm glad to know he's with someone who realizes the work needed with these guys. I'm a great admirer of the tree monitors and hope to one day work with both beccarii and macraei... which is why I've been reading, studying, finding out what truly healthy animals look like..diets, etc etc.. I'm developing a mental idea of some rather interesting requirements both these species have...and I've got plans for an arboreal type room sized habitat for a trio of each... The entire setup of the thing would be very zoo like save it wouldn't be arranged for viewing the animals.. it'd be arranged for their comfort.. Its going to take me about 6-10 years to get all the waterproofing, sealing and planting done and established before any monitors can be added to it... I figure the more space and the more cover they get... the best vertically oriented space with temperature controls... the more chances you have of successfully breeding both species...or any of the tree monitor species... Big plans.. only need the capital and space to do it right now..and hopefully I'll be buying my own house within the next few years and tearing out a room of it for just this project....
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
5.11.Leopard geckos (1.2 Blizzards (Caine, Phoenix, and Mirage), 0.2 Tangerine Albinos (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short, and Casper), 1.0 Tremper Albino (Mycah), 0.3 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, and Aris), 1.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas), 1.0 Full Stripe Chocolate Tremper Albino (Discord), 0.1 pastel (Raven) and 1.2 Normals)
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros) (R.I.P. November 18, 2005)
13 rats (plus pups)
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Ashe and Hercules)

Hello Lucien,

I have to disagree with what you said above with a room-sized enclosure being best for tree monitors. While yes, they would use every square inch of space offered to them in such a setup, they are not in the wild, and are not governed by nature(they do not hunt, forage, etc...in captivity). They are under your care, and their success is limited by and ultimately determined by you, the keeper. In a heavily planted, room-sized enclosure, with dozens/hundreds of hiding spaces and visual blinds, you will never see the animals. This will become a big problem.

While security and visual blinds are very important to the health and success of these flighty and nervous animals in captivity(especially WC individuals), you must still be able to closely observe them and keep a watchful eye on them. Ideally, in a "naturally setup" (such as the one you desribed- including large tree trunks, dense vegetation, etc..), there would be no way of keeping a close eye on the animals. Without being able to closely watch the progress of each individual animal, things are most likely to go downhill fast.

I am not suggesting to stick tree monitors in tiny little boxes where they can barely move around in or seek refuge in; I am suggesting that setting them up in enclosures which are manageable for you the keeper to keep a close eye on them, is what's important. These animals can be kept in smaller cages if they are set up properly; to maximize the total amount of usable space(while incorporating all of their necessities and environmental conditions). Usable surface area is what's important here; not volume.

Setting a pair up in such a room as you described would be an interesting experiment to see, however based on their infamous record of being extremely fragile and 'easy to kill', and their skittishness/nervousness, I would not want to run the risk of setting animals up in such an enclosure, where it'd be virtually impossible to keep track of each individual animal. It sounds great on paper, but in its implementation and application, it would most likely fail. There must exist a tradeoff, if a keeper is to be able to keep on top of each individual animal, to ensure their health and well-being.

Regards,

Bob

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Treemonitors.com

Sorry I didn;t actually clarify everything fully within that synopis... I'm not talking just taking a pair and putting them in there straight away... They'd have proper caging for a while.. allowing them to get used to my presence as much as possible... and work on getting them each to feed off of tongs in order to get a visual on them. I don't intend to open them right away into the huge spaces. I know of their flightly natures and to do this would just be incredibly ignorant... and there would eventually be more than a pair to that room... more like a male territory encompassing smaller female territories sort of... but really my goal is one of giving them needed room and privacy while still being able to monitor their conditions... I guess my problem is that these uys are true "tree" monitors and 6 ft cages just don't seem enough in my estimation. Again, not an expert and no way I can be one without even owning an animal of this type... but I do know there are ways in which to keep tabs on individuals in a naturalistic environment without endangering their health needlessly. The room idea is a dream...and something that possibly may never happen but it is something I would like to try eventually as an advanced experiment. I do realize many things could go wrong and I'd be as prepared as possible for all of them...including the proper enclosures to seperate, quarentine or house in a smaller area for observation if there's even an indication of a problem. As I said, this is something that may not happen for years... by then someone else may have cracked "the best" way to get these amazing animals to breed readily in captivity and then I'll need to revise the dream... there's nothing set in stone about it.. just a lot of plans and ideas...
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
5.11.Leopard geckos (1.2 Blizzards (Caine, Phoenix, and Mirage), 0.2 Tangerine Albinos (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short, and Casper), 1.0 Tremper Albino (Mycah), 0.3 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, and Aris), 1.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas), 1.0 Full Stripe Chocolate Tremper Albino (Discord), 0.1 pastel (Raven) and 1.2 Normals)
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros) (R.I.P. November 18, 2005)
13 rats (plus pups)
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Ashe and Hercules)

First I do not agree that total control is necessary or warranted. As you may understand, I came from the "asking the subject" what they are, approach, as opposited to "telling the subject" what they are approach.

So I of course love the idea of your room cage. I started with a giant cage, 20ft by 20ft, by 10ft high naturalistic cage. I soon realized that cage was perfect for testing requirements. But.

I see several problems with your approach. The first is time. In ten years, things will indeed have changed. There may be absolutely no need for that kind of cage. Or you may have nothing to put in it. As laws may have changed to prohibit keeping those species. So I suggest, if you want to do that, do it in a timely manner, like now. The information gained from such a test is needed now, it may not be needed in ten years.

Second, only make one cage. You see the problems may not be what you think they are. Thats the problem with lack of experience, you don't have a handle on what to expect. The real problems are not failure, but instead success. If your successful, what are you going to do. You need to plan on lots of offspring to house. But before that, where are the eggs going to be laid, etc etc. I use to e-mail a friend in Europe who kept prasinus in such a way, and his problem was where they laid eggs. He found the eggs upon breakdown or cleaning the cage. They laid behind bark and other such crevices that were not accessible. hehehehehehehe sneeky things. Remember, natural means all sorts of places to do such things as nest.

Of course thats only one example. The point is, a large cage like you explain is very good for learning their preferences, but not good for keeping more then a few animals. That large cage will allow you to understand whats needed in smaller more serviceable cages. And there lies the another problem, service, how do you service a giant cage? How do you control the blooms of different insects? You do understand, that my biggest problems was not monitors, but other investations. All sorts of spiders and bugs. Remember, natural cages are natural to other life forms too. Some produce exponently faster then monitors. Good thing I have a monitor building or I would have got rid of those blasted things years ago. And good thing that dang building is a good distance from my house. Nasty dag gum ##$%^&$%#$%^^%%&**(*$ bugs. Oh and don't get married, unless you marry a bug loving mate(hard to find)

So I wish you luck and more importantly, speed. Ten years from now, all things will have changed, including you keeping monitors. Cheers