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The politics of reptiles..........

vichris Feb 02, 2006 08:40 PM

I live in Albuquerque NM. Up until the past several months Albuquerque and NM in general have been a pretty herp friendly place to live.
Recently however "my" city counseler introduced a bill that would "license" reptile owners at a rate of $35.00 per pet. So far it's just a proposal but it's got alot of us herp owners here pretty ticked off. There are alot of folks here that keep a couple of box turtles in their backyards and kids who keep toads and frogs in backyard gardens and ponds or as pet in their homes.
What brought this whole thing on was a woman who was killed by her "pet" King Cobra. When the cops entered her house she had an anaconda, a couple of reticulated pythons and several other large snakes.

I have some definate feelings about some of my fellow herpers as it relates to this issue but I'm a little reluctant to put those feeling into words.......yet.

I'm just interested in hearing what some of you on this forum might be willing to share or if you have some experience in dealing with this issue.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Replies (5)

wftright Feb 02, 2006 10:51 PM

Chris,

Most people wouldn't think of me as being particularly radical, but I find few people who believe in licensing less than I do. Personally, I believe that most licensing in this country (and probably almost any other country) is just another effort by government bureaucrats to keep their jobs intact, to collect more money from the citizens, and to help some people keep others out of business.

One of my favorite examples is from here in Louisiana. In Louisiana, one must have a professional florist's license in order to sell arranged flowers. Selling flower arrangements without a license is punishable by stiff fines for every arrangement sold and by confiscation of any arrangements found in the place of business. The licenses are granted by a board, and the board members teach classes in flower arranging. If you want to be a florist here, you have to take the class and make the teacher like you enough to persuade the other board members to vote for you. You can pass the class on flower arranging and bring to the board an arrangement just like the ones that you made while passing the class. If the board member who taught your class didn't like you enough to persuade the others to vote for you, you don't get the license. If you live in an area where the board members have friends and they don't want their friends to have competition, you don't get the license. The whole thing is a scam that was passed into law by a corrupt state government for the benefit of some cronies.

Sadly, the people of this country have come to believe in bureaucracy. They believe that if the right pieces of paper have the right words in the right blanks and are filed in the right office, then everything must work out just fine. They delude themselves into believing that if they just create the right set of controls, they can eliminate human tragedy. Present any problem to the average member of "we the sheeple," and that problem will suggest a solution that involves making people get licenses.

With reptiles as with anything else, licenses really aren't going to solve anything. Most big problems come from people being irresponsible, and most irresponsible people are not stupid. If we force them to learn certain material and take a test, they will pass. They will then go back to being irresponsible. If we force them to endure inspections or some other form of intrusion, they will do the minimum to pass, and then they will go back to being irresponsible. Licensing reptile owners won't stop the irresponsible owners from being irresponsible. Licensing will only harass and inconvenience the responsible owners who try to comply with these stupid laws.

Louisiana has some reptile licensing, but so far, I haven't been impacted. To own snakes over 12 feet long, one must have a license and mostly prove that the snakes are in escape-proof cages. I don't remember whether the license is needed at the moment that the snake reaches that length or whether the license is needed just to keep species that can reach that length. Owning venomous snakes has similar requirements maybe with the addition of a requirement to keep anti-venom. Owning or even catching native species requires a basic fishing license.

Louisiana has another license to be a dealer. The owner of the pet store nearest my home made a point of showing me his license. He's pretty proud of it, but the snakes in his shop aren't kept in good conditions. The manager is willing to listen to my suggestions, and he usually does things when I ask. However, those snakes live pretty rough lives. Both of their ball pythons have died. In August and September of last year, they lost several young milk and corn snakes. Again, the license is just a piece of paper. How people behave depends on what is inside them and not on the pieces of paper that the government issues them.

You haven't given any details, but those details would determine my thoughts about this woman. Even good herpers will sometimes make a mistake. Tragedy is a part of life, and maybe this woman did the right things 99.99% of the time. Maybe she made that 1 in 10,000 mistake and was unlucky enough to be struck when she did. In that case, all of the licensing in the world wouldn't have saved her. These things happen, but too many politicians in both parties lack the moral courage or wisdom to understand that they can't legislate tragedy from the human condition and are fools to make the attempt. On the other hand, maybe she was completely irresponsible and was simply an accident waiting to happen. Again, her death is a tragedy, but licensing again wouldn't have been likely to save her. If she really wanted these snakes, she would have taken the tests and said whatever was necessary to get her license. Then she would have done all of the wrong things and died the same way. Licensing wouldn't have saved her.

If your area has more herpers than most areas have, you have a better chance of fighting this proposal. The average family keeping a little turtle or frog is not going to want to spend an extra $35 per animal for another government piece of paper. They're also not going to want to go through the headache of dealing with renewing a license every year. You'll need to publicize the proposal and ask people to write to their council representatives asking that the proposal be defeated. You may need to speak at a council meeting and try to speak on local talk radio.

I wish you well in trying to resist this bad idea. I'd certainly be encouraged to hear of another licensing proposal being defeated. As you can tell, I'm passionate about these kinds of issues.

Good luck,

Bill

PS. I'm pretty happy with two snakes, but I still like thayeri. Maybe someday I'll be ready to add to my collection.
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It's not how many snakes you have. It's how happy and healthy you can keep them.

TwoSnakes Feb 06, 2006 03:42 AM

$35 per animal every year is outrageous thats more than for a dog.
However I imagine its a good way for these 2 organized crime political parties to pay for their and their families limo service,first class airline tickets,vacations and the zillion other things tax payers pay for .

APLAXAR Feb 03, 2006 12:50 PM

hey chris,

you know i just moved here from vermont to durango colorado, and working the pet industry in vermont things were changing as i left as far as herp laws go, some of the laws made sense, i personally think that not everyone should own a retic or an anaconda, there are alot of idiots out there that posses these snakes because they think they are cool because they have big snakes, now not only do i keep kings but i am also a tortoise fan, and they were banning such tortoises as the burmese brown and the most gentle species of all the red foot, my response to that is what will a red foot tortoise do to anybody? eat their lettuce and veggies? but that was more on the importation part of the herp trade, they were worried about numbers in the wild even thought they are bred in large number in this country. back there also you couldnt keep anything native to the state, which i agree with but they out lawed milk snakes their too, because they were worried of breeding in the wild between hondurans for example with the eastern milk personally no honduran could survive a vermont winter in my book, its hard enough for vermonters to survive wermont winters its darn cold there. i definatly do agree with some restictions on venomous and snakes that exceed 15 feet, not everyone should own one, but to charge people 35 dollars a herp is rediculous if thats the case people should be charge 1000$ for anyt large dog in the house hold because they could do far more damage than any king snake or toad would ever do.

adam

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1.2 THAYERI
1.2 CORNS SNAKES (SNOW/STRIPEDSUNGLOW/WHITE TAIL CANDYCANE)

0.1 REDFOOT TORTOISE
0.1 PYXIE FROG

xbertmouser Feb 03, 2006 05:05 PM

How I would handle this.
#1 I would print up a flyer and post it at every pet shop and vet office in your area that is to be affected. I would write something to explain the laws that are in place for keeping poisonous snakes and how these laws are already enough to ensure the safety of the general public. Site how many people have been killed or injured by poisonous reptiles in your area since these laws have been in place. If it is like my area there are not many counts of this happening. Let them know who the people are that are planning this bill. Give the names and the phone numbers! Explain that nobody is going to pay the money to register their reptiles (I would have to pay $1,435 and what about when the hatchlings arrive!). let people know that it is going to cost the tax payers more money to police the keepers of reptiles than the reptile owners are ever going to pay in. let the people of your area know that right now it’s reptiles because they are not smiled upon by the majority of the public. If they allow this to happen it will be hamsters then tropical fish then anyone owning a pond in their yard then birds. The list could go on because city officials love our money they think they know how best to spend it. They think they can offer us so much more bang for our buck!
#2 call the city official and tell them how you feel and that you are going to raise your voice to the pubic. Let them know you are going to the entire pet trade and you are going to raise all of the eyebrows that you can. They hide behind the fact that you are only one in a crowd of thousands who will be affected. If you can get people who don’t own reptiles to give voice that should kill the idea. I am sorry you are facing this but understand that if a keeper of reptiles stand up, it’s almost a joke to them. If every body stands they will back down!
#3 find out how many pet organizations are in you area (cat clubs fish clubs ect...) ask them for there support they could write a letter in or get their members to call. The reptile keepers should voice there opinions and then push the other pet keepers to help.
Tell them you’ll walk their dog scoop up their kitty litter and clean their fish tanks lol
Hope this helps in some way. This issue gets my blood boiling so I got to go catch a smoke. don’t worry it is the legal taxed kind Hahaha
Jason in Jacksonville

serpentdan Feb 05, 2006 01:52 PM

Chris,

Let this city counseler know that this proposed bill won't solve anything. It sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to an isolated incident and does not warrant such a broad stroke law.

This is how our rights to keep herps gets slowly chipped away.

Dan

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