Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Photos and video link at URL

KUTV (Salt Lake City, Utah) 03 February 06 Watch Out Crocs, New Python Heading To Everglades
A 13-foot Burmese python is headed to the Florida Everglades, except this one's every move will now be tracked.
To better understand the presence of pythons in the Everglades, scientists at Davidson College in North Carolina inserted a tracking device inside the animal.
Everglades Park research technicians will follow the snake's movement and study how the reptile adapts to its new environment.
Pythons, elusive creatures which are difficult to find and capture, are rapidly becoming the new predators of the swamp. Just last year, a 13-foot python was found with a six-foot alligator halfway down its body.
So far, scientists have implanted tracking devices inside four Burmese pythons, and will study the animals for at least a year.
Watch Out Crocs, New Python Heading To Everglades

This will make for a very interesting study. I know of a fellow colleague who was in the Everglades doing primarily bird watching and he came across several burms crossing dirt roads in the Everglades; they are doing quite well and hopefully, the Fish & Game will figure out a way to eradicate them (sorry burm folks, I love 'em but they don't belong in the 'glades...it would be nice if they could be rescued and placed with facilities out of state but that will be a long shot).

>>Photos and video link at URL
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>>KUTV (Salt Lake City, Utah) 03 February 06 Watch Out Crocs, New Python Heading To Everglades
>>A 13-foot Burmese python is headed to the Florida Everglades, except this one's every move will now be tracked.
>>To better understand the presence of pythons in the Everglades, scientists at Davidson College in North Carolina inserted a tracking device inside the animal.
>>Everglades Park research technicians will follow the snake's movement and study how the reptile adapts to its new environment.
>>Pythons, elusive creatures which are difficult to find and capture, are rapidly becoming the new predators of the swamp. Just last year, a 13-foot python was found with a six-foot alligator halfway down its body.
>>So far, scientists have implanted tracking devices inside four Burmese pythons, and will study the animals for at least a year.
>>Watch Out Crocs, New Python Heading To Everglades
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

If they are adapting well enough to live in Florida's environment, what is wrong with letting them stay? Are people actually afraid of upsetting the food chain or something? I realize that gators aren't the thing to be eating, but there are myriad other edible sized animans out there for them to eat.

Sure the food chain will be intact. There will always be bigger vs smaller; predator vs prey. No question.

The concern is the role withen the biosphere. The last new, top predator to enter Florida was man, and look how that's done for the environment. Of course the burm won't be such a drastic insult, but we don't know enough about such a change. We do know what happens when smaller, prey animals enter a society. Rabbits in aussie, bullfrogs in the west, zebra mussles in the lakes, ect. It sure makes conservation of the native animals a lot harder.

Ian

"If they are adapting well enough to live in Florida's environment, what is wrong with letting them stay? Are people actually afraid of upsetting the food chain or something? I realize that gators aren't the thing to be eating, but there are myriad other edible sized animans out there for them to eat."

First, they just don't belong here!!! That should be reason enough, But also they are eatting food that others need to live, others that SHOULD be here, and the gator was the top of the food chain, but now with burms and gators fighting for the same food, they will end up eatting everything, even each other. They will cause a ban on pet burms(well it will be the people who think such a ban would help, but I don't see how telling me I can't keep my pet will stop them from breeding in the wild)there are so many things wrong with it, I just can't post the words, but it is wrong!!!!!!!!

Oh yea another reason is, THEY JUST DON'T BELONG HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Please...
Keep an OPEN MIND, You'll be AMAZED...

I could write a book in response to your question but I am afraid that it won't be fully understood due to your apparent lack of understanding of basic ecological principals. The bottom line is that this is an introduced species that could have the potential, along with all of the other introduced invasive species currently established, to severely affect the native herpetofauna (heck, all wildife) of the Everglades region. It would be a real shame to lose native species due to irresponsible pet owners. As much as I love burms, I have no problem with certain authorities killing them on site when they are encountered (it stinks for the snake but its probably in the best interest for the entire ecosystem). There is a lot of research being done at the moment to determine the long range ramifications of these introduced species.

>>If they are adapting well enough to live in Florida's environment, what is wrong with letting them stay? Are people actually afraid of upsetting the food chain or something? I realize that gators aren't the thing to be eating, but there are myriad other edible sized animans out there for them to eat.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I agree with the effort to eradicate the Burms in theory, BUT...

We're not in a perfect world. I live in Miami. I see exotic
species everywhere I look. There are muscovy ducks in every
single canal and lake in FL. They are all over the golf course
and parking lot where I live. The native ducks left decades ago.

I see huge green guanas everywhere on a daily basis now. They
even live right by the streets. They seem smart enough not to
cross the street because I see the same group of 5-10 on my
drive home every day. I didn't know their skin colors change so
dramatically. I thought they were greem all then time, but it
seems the weather affects that.

There are so many quacker parrots nesting here that they damage
the light and phone poles. Do you know how they get dealt with?
A special crew comes and gently removes the nests. If an egg or
two fall you should hear the uproar.

I can't help but think that Evolution doesn't take place in a
fish bowl. Animals migrate due to weather changes or other
natural phenomena. WE are natural phenomena whether we realize it
or not...

I doubt they will ever get rid of all them.

I suppose it's just another case of what's natural and what's right? If you think that humans are natural and everything they do is within their nature and if part of that nature is not only to impact his environment through his own actions, but also by his introduction of foreign species into a given environment, then this dilemma is a result of mans human nature. Proponents of such a perspective might also say that at any point in evolutionary history, one species has always been fighting another for resources and that the balanced ecosystems we witness today have actually always been and continue to slowly change over time. They would also argue that nature will find a way and eventually balance itself out. Natural selection dictates that a species must adapt to new predators, lest they perish, and whatever happens as a result is entirely natural and this could all just be a play in the dynamics of natural lesser creatures being manipulated by naturally vastly more intelligent primates. However, if one takes the approach that because man is so intelligent, that he is in fact beyond the rules and perhaps comfort of being entirely natural, that he is responsible for not only his fate but the fate of the creatures and the natural world around him, then this python dilemma would seem quite obviously a result of irresponsible humans. I understand what you all are saying about the overriding importance of ensuring a balanced ecosystem, but at some point, and not to make an excuse for poor husbandry practices, it seems impossible to prevent mankinds destructive impact on the world, given our present levels of unprecedented consumption. Just like in natural selection, you have every creature in the world competing with us for both space and resources. After we've taken all the land from the native creatures of this world, where will they have left to live besides the basements and garages of hobbyists and breeders? Perhaps what would be best is a very large natural reptile preserve in the everglades that would house a vast array of animals from around the world that could thrive in the climate and who would co-exist through micro-managing of a controlled and contained ecosystem. I just think we owe it to species around the world to allow them to thrive and if we can do that without irreparably destroying ecosystems, why not try? Thoughts?

You may want to run that idea of letting them be past someone, anyone, in Hawaii. When you do ask them if they have ever heard of a Coqui Frog. Cute little guy, slightly bigger than 1 inch, makes a cute little noise refered to by some as a "loud two-tone call, 'ko-kee'". That small and it is reeking havoc on their ecosystem... (source: www ctahr hawaii edu/coqui/differences asp (add dots in the spaces))

If there is that much trouble coming from a little frog imagine what something slightly bigger... lets say 12 feet or so... could do if left alone. Yes they have many different forms of prey in Florida but unfortunitly for all over us, the media has it completely wrong, stupid owners are not high on their menu. So it is left to responsible keepers, cats, dogs, hamsters, rats, mice, and anything else they find edible or that actually is concerned about the enviornment to deal with the stupidity. Sometimes I wish they had it right, there would truely be no need for legislation if 'hot' snakes and constrictors were as dangerous as they are made out to be, stupid owners would not last long enough to cause the problems!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

why not let them serve a purpose as well-send the skins of the introduced species to bootmakers in Texas and maybe it will put a dent in profitability of the rattlesnake roundups.-A 12 foot Burm will make more boots than a 5 foot diamondback and rednecks lie anyway so if they're told fried python is rattlesnake big deal-Also since we're using "local" animals there might be less demand for imported python skins in the US. It's a long shot, but could work.

after thinking about it, you have made a good point. I think that might be a viable way of helping to "curb" the rattlesnake roundup "necessities" and control the population of introduced burms in the process. Would someone be willing to introduce this idea to Florida Fish and Game?

Chris

>>why not let them serve a purpose as well-send the skins of the introduced species to bootmakers in Texas and maybe it will put a dent in profitability of the rattlesnake roundups.-A 12 foot Burm will make more boots than a 5 foot diamondback and rednecks lie anyway so if they're told fried python is rattlesnake big deal-Also since we're using "local" animals there might be less demand for imported python skins in the US. It's a long shot, but could work.
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

np
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids