Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to know what some of the "experts" are using as substrate in their indigo cages. I have been told large tubs in a rack system with pine/cat litter are easier to keep tidy and maintain a nice aroma!

For substrate I have seen mixtures of pine chips/cat litter, Cyprus mulch, or just plain newspaper.

The reason I ask, my wife is very "odor aware" and since the snake room is in the basement she complains if "her" rooms above the basement have unpleasant aromas wafting up from below.

I can see her point, she is not a "herper" and has tried to be accommodating on the herp collection issue!

Any ideas would be appreciated, are Indigos just not a good choice for a herp room in the same living area and are they really that much more difficult to keep sanitized than other reptiles?

I have even toyed with the idea of installing a suction fan of some sort that vents to the outside of the house to cut down on the problem.

thanks
wlamore

my wife is very nice to tolerate my collection (which currently includes 4 Drys and 4 large Pituophis) and we are in a very small (700 sq ft) house. i am able to hold onto my collection by being extra diligent about cleaning cages -- luckily i can get home before she does in oder to get to immediate odors.

i use newspaper on about half of these snakes and the rest are on aspen shavings (the fine stuff, not the larger chips). also watch what you feed them. i find that if you go heavy on either fish or quail, then you're asking for a bigger and less pleasant (?) odor. when it comes time to "spot" clean the aspen, it works best to remove a large area around the deposit and get all the damp shavings and then wash the cage area with chlorohexidine. this practice, as well as replacing the shavings, results in a total shavings turnover is just a couple months -- at least for a well fed 5 footer on eight square feet of substrate.

matt

The best way to keep odor at bay is to clean the enclosures diligently, at least that is the best method I have found, as I believe encloosures should be cleaned frequently to avoid any odors, not masking such.
I use unprinted newspapaper that I acquire as end roles, from the newspaper industry. I clean my enclosures out multiple times per week and this has provemn to be the fastest and easiest method I have found so far. I used to use aspen mixed with Cell-Sorb plus and this was great at absorbing both odor and waste, but wasn't conducive for quick and easy cleaning of teh entire enclosure.
The best way to keep odor at bay is to clean the enclosures diligently, at least that is the best method I have found.

Good luck,

Jeff
-----
Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

I use aspen in my enclosure with no problem. I spot clean daily because he goes ALOT & is located right above the computer.
I moisten the hide box regularly to help with the shedding


-----
norcalsnakemaster@comcast.net

Hey,

Can totally understand your dilemma.Years ago i had my reptile room in the house, and there was NO DOOR on it separating it from the rest of the house, just an archway(It was meant to be a dining room)

Which means that if you sat down to watch "Final Jeopardy...or Jerry Springer...or any of the other drivel that our networks come out with....you MIGHT *EXPERIENCE* what I called the
"Blast O' Stank".

Basically, for all intensive purposes, the oxygen seemed to be sucked out of the living room and was replaced by ammonia and a God awfull smell....

Worse on hot days without A/C blowing hard.

That snakeroom was a CHALLENGE, thats fo' sure.

My recommendation to you:

Well.....In the past I have kept my adult couperi on newspaper, aspen, sani-chips, and bed a beast mixed with soil.

I dont recommend the pine, simply because of the oils present and the smell. But then I think Christmas trees stink also so keep that in mind.

I would keep it simple. Adults on newspaper. Juveniles on white paper towel. When they defecate:
a)Remove Indigo from cage and put in SECURE holding container
b) Remove ALL Newspaper or papertowel and throw away.
c)Clean entire cage bottem with novalsan or Quatricide.
d)Wipe out cage with clean semi moist cloth
e)Replace paper to about 4 layers thickeness.

f) Repeat entire operation again when Indigo defecates in newly cleaned cage..

An air filter works wonders and will cut down on much of the ammonia smell. Avoid feeding fish and quail, both lead to really smelly waste products. Indigos are high maintenance snakes, so just do what you are doing and clean them FREQUENTLY. Maintaining good ventilation and temps that rent to high should aslo help, but they are messy.

Best of luck
Fred Albury

Although I have traditionally used newspaper for my indigos, it makes it very difficult to stay on top of complete cage cleanings, and, paper doesn't mask the odorific aroma of indigo crap....but I still use newspaper on many of my herps (just the lower maintenance species). I experimented with quite a few substrates but kept coming back to Aspen....its absorbent to a point, easy to spot clean, easy to spot feces, and has a nice scent w/out being noxious to the snake. My wife has the nose of a bloodhound and the slightest hint of indigo defecation will send her into a flurry of firing up every scented candle in the house! I always know when I'm in trouble when I come home and see a thousand candles lit up....I'm in the dog...er, snake house. Aspen has kept these situations to a minimum.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>I would like to know what some of the "experts" are using as substrate in their indigo cages. I have been told large tubs in a rack system with pine/cat litter are easier to keep tidy and maintain a nice aroma!
>>
>>For substrate I have seen mixtures of pine chips/cat litter, Cyprus mulch, or just plain newspaper.
>>
>>The reason I ask, my wife is very "odor aware" and since the snake room is in the basement she complains if "her" rooms above the basement have unpleasant aromas wafting up from below.
>>
>>I can see her point, she is not a "herper" and has tried to be accommodating on the herp collection issue!
>>
>>Any ideas would be appreciated, are Indigos just not a good choice for a herp room in the same living area and are they really that much more difficult to keep sanitized than other reptiles?
>>
>>I have even toyed with the idea of installing a suction fan of some sort that vents to the outside of the house to cut down on the problem.
>>
>>thanks
>>wlamore
>>
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

i agree with Rob, a thousand points of light spells trouble in the homestaead.

by the way Rob,

"My wife has the nose of a bloodhound..."

i hope you took the surgeon to court.

matt

It is not so much the bedding as your ability to maintain what you choose. My point is that Aspen if un-attended will mold. Cypress will not mold as easy but can cause problems if ingested. Newspaper can mold if not changed properly. Mold will kill snakes faster than most things but other things are clean water and making sure substrate is not ingested when feeding.

-----
"Life without risk is to merely exist."

aspen does seem great in the beginning but tends to 'gray' & get old after a bit. then it throws a stale smell i cannot stand. wholesale cleaning it out is also a pia & it tends to get everywhere! i've tried everything exhaustively a 1000 times but keep coming back to straight ole' newspaper. granted, it doesn't look as good but they can't ingest it, they love going under it & if your cages are large enough, you can 'spot clean' it too by just pulling certain sheets. besides, you can't read old aspen articles you missed before you know?.......

I use aged newspaper for adults and paper towel for hatchlings. Clean all cages at least twice a week whether they seem to need it or not. If room is in the house or basement ventilation is a good idea. Some odor will reach other areas of home.

What do you think of CareFresh Pet Bedding and Litter?

CareFresh is an excellent product for some species, especially burrowers which generally prefer dry habitats i.e. Rosys, Sand boas, many Kings etc. I do not think it is ideal for Drys however, as it is almost too absorbent for these humidity tolerant animals, and it makes cleaning a chore compared to newspaper and wiping down with Nolvasan. When one considers how often you must clean a Drymarchons enclosure, the cost of CareFresh would be considerable. I am using newspaper for my three '05's. I feed frequently, hence they defecate frequently... What say the brethrin?

Another interesting point: Most newspapers in the U.S. are tools for the propoganda machine, and as such are more like infomercials than true news. I have found that their ULIMATE use is as cage bedding,be it birds, reptiles, or even small dogs.

Absorbent enough to soak up not only all the lies and half truths printed on them, but fecal matter and urates as well! !

Now THATS a bargain....

Fred Albury