Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My question is about building wooden "boaphile" cages...Like the ones that are 4' x 2' x 18"...I can't afford to buy 3 boaphile cages so im thinking of building them..I plan on breeding 2 of my boas at the end of 2006 and I am wondering if the wooden cages would be good for breeding...as in controlling the temperature and humidity...i will use plastic on top of the wood for the flooring..and heat tape as the heating source.does anyone have experience with this??..i would really like to build my own, but if it is worth buying the boaphile cages, the so be it...but im just trying to get some opinions on using wooden cages..thanks for the replies, i really appreciate it...
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0.4 normal ball pythons
0.1 normal redtail boa
0.0.1 Mexican Rosy Boa
1.0 true redtail boa
1.1 100% het albino redtail
1 baby sulcata tortoise
0.0.1 Baby Bearded Dragon

You can build a 900 gallon aquarium out of plywood sealed with epoxy so I think you get get wood to do just about anything you want for a snake cage.

I have built several and really like them save for the weight and the hassles with sealing the wood.

Here is one I build with cheap oak-laminated plywood sealed with a solvent-free epoxy rated suitable for food surfaces;

What I really like about them is that you can build cage singe unit "cage stacks". In other words, a multi-cage unit were the floor of the top cage acts as the ceiling for the cage below. And so on. Very nice thing to be able to do provide the stack can be rolled around corners, underneath doors, etc. As a general rule of thumb this can be done for a stack with a floor area of 4' x 2'. Any bigger and you should consider building individual cages.

Sealing the wood is not as big of a deal as it used to be. Use of Sintra or other expanded PVC for the floor helps with durability, ease of cleaning and with sub-floor heating. Solvent based paints, polyurethanes and epoxies are no longer necessary for sealing the wood as there are excellent waterborne alternatives.

There is also vinyl film which can be laminated over the wooden interior to make a very water resistant finish that is cheap and easy.

what vinyl film are your speaking of? ..in the three level cage right now (6'Hx3'Wx2'D)...im using plastic sheets for the floors which are going to be glued to the wood and i cut a hole in one side of the wood for the heat tape to go against the plastic...the reason i asked about the wood for breeding is because i didnt know if a sealant would hold up against all of the "afterbirth"...and i was thinking of making three different enclosures, but your were right about just making the floor of one the ceiling of the next one as in just one enclosure with three or four levels...thanks...
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0.4 normal ball pythons
0.1 normal Redtail boa
1.0 Hypo Redtail boa
1.0 true Redtail boa
1.1 100% Het Albino Redtail boa
1 baby sulcata tortoise
0.0.1 Baby Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Baby Red Uromastyx
0.1 GF Eryn (WC)

There are numerous vinyl films made for the graphics industry. You know, the stuff they use to make lettering for store fronts, etc.

It comes in rolls and is self-adhesive.

There are numerous levels of price/quality. Fortunately, for reptile cages you only need the basic calendared vinyl rated for five year exterior use. The more expensive stuff will not offer any durability advantage over the basic 5 year vinyl. At least not in a reptile cage.

I bought a roll of the FDC 4200 when it was on sale. I think it ended up costing about 26 cents per square foot.

http://www.beacongraphics.com/calendered-vinyl.php

Or you could use melamine.

Chris covered wood so I figured I would add the comment on melamine.

Good luck
Jeremy

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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow Red Tailed Boas -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino Red Tailed Boa -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic Red Tailed Boas
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino Red Tailed Boas
0.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boa
0.1 Anerthrystic Red Tailed Boa
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

Melamine gets a bad rap in the herp world which I'm not sure is entirely fair. For the price you get a much flatter, straighter, and smoother panel than similarly priced plywood.

If you bypass Home Depot and go to your locally owned cabinet shop you can get a pretty durable material. Ask for 100 weight thermofused melamine at a minimum.

For a boa you might still consider a layer of vinyl film on the walls and plastic Sintra for the floor. Not that it's absolutely necessary, but it will increase the durability.

If you go with the lower quality Home Depot melamine then I would encourage you to seal the interior with something else. At least for a Boa.

>>If you bypass Home Depot and go to your locally owned cabinet shop you can get a pretty durable material. Ask for 100 weight thermofused melamine at a minimum.

Another plus is Melamine from a cabinet shop is 49"x97" a defenite benifit for those making 24"x48" cages.

Also Chris is right on the boa abuse. I myself raise boas on melamine cages and they break down the plastic coating with their urates. Although not as bad as Burmese I am switching to vinyl lined none the less.

Jeremy
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow Red Tailed Boas -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino Red Tailed Boa -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic Red Tailed Boas
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino Red Tailed Boas
0.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boa
0.1 Anerthrystic Red Tailed Boa
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

what are those vents for?
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0.4 normal ball pythons
0.1 normal Redtail boa
1.0 Hypo Redtail boa
1.0 true Redtail boa
1.1 100% Het Albino Redtail boa
1 baby sulcata tortoise
0.0.1 Baby Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Baby Red Uromastyx
0.1 GF Eryn (WC)

>>what are those vents for?

Those are my Bearded Dragon cages. The vents are to allow air circulation and to prevent the cage from getting to hot with an MVB.
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow Red Tailed Boas -Coming Soon-
0.1 Albino Red Tailed Boa -Coming Soon-
1.1 Hypomelenistic Red Tailed Boas
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino Red Tailed Boas
0.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boa
0.1 Anerthrystic Red Tailed Boa
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse

Here is one I built with 8 sections. The PVC tubing allows me to interconnect for breeding season. In this cage all the floors are laminated with formica. For a second cage almost identical to this one I laminated all sides, floor and ceiling with formica, so easy to clean. I keep BRB's in them so humidity is kept high and they pass a LOT of urates. This one is now 10 plus years old and still working great. One advantage of the wood cages is they retain heat better, takes longer to stabalize but then won't fluctuate much. Larger mass to retain/dissapate the heat.

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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

thanks for the replies..i really appreciate the help....
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0.4 normal ball pythons
0.1 normal Redtail boa
1.0 Hypo Redtail boa
1.0 true Redtail boa
1.1 100% Het Albino Redtail boa
1 baby sulcata tortoise
0.0.1 Baby Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Baby Red Uromastyx
0.1 GF Eryn (WC)

what are the pvc pipes used for?
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0.4 normal ball pythons
0.1 normal Redtail boa
1.0 Hypo Redtail boa
1.0 true Redtail boa
1.1 100% Het Albino Redtail boa
1 baby sulcata tortoise
0.0.1 Baby Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Baby Red Uromastyx
0.1 GF Eryn (WC)

any more pics of wooden boa cages would be great..thanks...
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0.4 normal ball pythons
0.1 normal Redtail boa
1.0 Hypo Redtail boa
1.0 true Redtail boa
1.1 100% Het Albino Redtail boa
1 baby sulcata tortoise
0.0.1 Baby Bearded Dragon
0.0.1 Baby Red Uromastyx
0.1 GF Eryn (WC)

smirk, you missed it in the original post.

longer explanation:

The pipes allow me to interconnect as many or as few of my 2'x 2' x 18" sections as I want. I breed BRB's and they normally get one section each. At breeding time (NOW) the tubes get opened up to allow the snakes to cruise around, find each other, mate and WOOHOO, babies later. Seems to work pretty good. Last year I split the overall cage into two vertical stacks of 4 cages each (kept the cross tubes blocked). With 2.7 breeders split into 1.3 and 1.4 colonies, I produced 136 babies. Got the same plan going this year......keep your fingers crossed.

The pipes were my own original idea, feel free to copy if you want!!
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

In this cage all the floors are laminated with formica.

Dave,

I think I've asked you this before, but what did you seal the walls with on this cage? How long/well has it held up?

Regarding formica, it's a very good choice given what you can buy slightly damaged pieces for. We rarely need long continuous runs in snake cages so small sections should be easy to come by. Not that I'm telling you anything you didn't already know, but I thought it might be helpful to the thread originator.

Hey Chris, I stained the insides and sealed with several coats of water based polyurethane. I sprayed the pieces prior to assembly to ensure all the corners were well covered. After assembly, used kitchen/bathroom caulk on all seams.

The cage has been fully populated for over 10 years. I do have some staining from urates/feces on the lower portions of the wall. Does not appear to have really affected the integrity of the finish. For my second cage similar to the first I went with formica on the sides and ceiling as well. I don't like the staining and I figured this would be bulletproof.

Another trick I've picked up lately and somewhat by accident. My sections are slightly smaller than standard newspaper. When I started using newspaper instead of indoor/outdoor felt carpet I found I had to press the paper into the corners leaving a half inch going up the sides and back. Well as I'm sure you've already anticipated, this limits the contact of solid urates and/or feces with the wall. WOOHOO!!! What does not get stuck/smeared on the wall, does not have to be cleaned off of the wall. Since then I have switched over to dimpled craft paper and I cut my pieces even larger that newspaper, now I have 1.5" - 2" riding up on the sides. Even better protection, plus makes kind of a bowl which holds the urates even more. BRB's pass liquid urates often and in volume.

So now for cleaning cages it's put the snake in a container, remove/clean the hides and water bowl. Fold up the paper liners, I usually have two layers of newspaper under the dimpled craft paper to help soak up the urates. Spray down and clean the floor/sides/whatever necessary. Re-paper the floor, replace the hide/water bowl, return the snake.
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Have those cages held Rainbow boas for the entire time? That is impressive, especially given how far waterborne polys have come in ten years. There are some WB's out nowadays that are truely impressive.

Do you remember what brand you used exactly?

I have always felt that waterborne polys, even the basic "over the counter" types, were durable enough provided some sort of plastic or laminate floor was used. The one obvious excpetion would be if someone put a few or more inches of moist substrate in the bottom, which is not very common in the snake community. A WB poly would likely break down under that type of exposure. It also does not stand up well to species that scratch excessively, which my Bearded Dragon has proven. But on the other hand, the stuff is so easy to reapply that it's no big deal to move the animal out for a few days while small portions of the cage is refinished.

Some of the new WB polys would probably withstand even those conditions.

Thanks for the "real world" data. A lot of the suggestions I make on the forum are educated guesses so it's nice for someone with your experience to chime in with this sort of information.

I don't remember the brand of water based poly. I still have some, a store was going out of business and I bought several gallons, still using it now some 12 years later. Mater of fact, did my whole kitchen in it. Reminds me, I owe you some pics of the kitchen.

I've kept my BRB's in the cage the whole time. One section was devoted to a couple of BP's for a couple of years. Ndever reapplied the finish. Did have to touch up the caulking.

One thing I have used in the past and never again is the premanufactured formica countertops. They are particle board and if/when you do get a leak, they swell. I pretty much stick to plywood for that reason when I build a cage. Also, I love the look of real wood.
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

np
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave,

In case you have not heard of it from me or elsewhere, I thought I'd mention a product a wood-working aficionado/herp geek like yourself might appreciate.

Nova makes plywood that comes with a prefinished UV cure epoxy coating. It is an incredible safe finish and very durable. You can use acetone on it to clean up adhesive drips, etc.

I have not yet tried it but intend to ask my wood supplier when I finally get some time off.

Cutting it is an issue as you can scratch the stuff on a table saw. I may just try the stuff with the finish on one side only and keep the good side up.

It's expensive but end up being cheaper than buying the same plywood and finishing it yourself.