Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering what is so special about ultramels. They look like a plain corn to me (not ugly, but nothing special). Why are they so expensive. is it because they are the newest morph or what. I noticed the price on lavenders has gone down some, as well as pewters on some sites. Is the corn hobby all about fads or what? Because it is new or becomes popular, it has to be expensive? I am patient. I wait until the prices are reasonable.
just wondering if there was something ultra special about ultramels or if it is just because they are new.
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------Misty-------
We have enough youth....How about a fountain of smart?

Haha, i think its all about having something that no one else has then they get the big bucks! Im not into that stuff. I enjoy my snakes and not into for the money like some people.
But, thats another subject....LOl
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Amel,Green Snow,Okatee,Motley Stripe,Hypos X 2,Snow females. Anery male, and pairs of Candys,Butter,and Motley Creamsicles

The thing that makes this morph so special is that it is co dominate. If you breed the normal line of Amel to a plain ol Corn half of the babies will be het for Amel. If you breed the Ultramel to a plain ol Corn you WILL get some Amels immediately in the first clutch which eliminates the waiting. This snake has a lot of potential, and in my opinion is under priced if anything. However since Corns are capable of producing many eggs the price will come down fairly soon as it does with any other morph. Tom Stevens

If you breed the Ultramel to a plain ol Corn you WILL get some Amels immediately in the first clutch

If you breed an ultramel to a normal, you'll get 100% normals.
Ultra is NOT codominant to normal. Ultra is codominant to Amel. An Ultramel is carrying one copy of the amel gene and one copy of the ultra gene.

If you breed an ultra to an amel, you'll get 100% ultramels.
Breed an ultramel to an amel, and get roughly half ultramels and half amels.
Breed an ultramel to a normal, and you'll get normals that will be het for EITHER ultra OR amel, but NOT BOTH.

That having been said, you are right about their popularity... for people that know how the whole codominant-with-amel thing works, the potential to make new combinations fast is something that's hard to pass up.

Give it a few years and the price will drop (it always does with any morph). If you don't mind waiting to work with the morph, then there's no reason to rush out and buy one. If the idea of creating something new appeals to you, well... might be worth a little extra upfront expenditure.

Incidentally, if you think new corn morphs are expensive, go take a look at the ball python industry.

-Kat
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This Space For Rent

Nyquil and coffee are not the best combo, but here I am. Thanks for claryifing Tom Stevens

>>Nyquil and coffee are not the best combo, but here I am. Thanks for claryifing Tom Stevens
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This Space For Rent

.

Calling something 'co-dominant' implies that it's co-dominant to the wild-type gene. Which it is not. It's co-dominant to amel and recessive to the wild-type.

And in regards to your email, this isn't a PMS or an ego thing. I just have issues with presenting genetic misinformation, whether intended or not.

-Kat

(And if you want to get REALLY technical, 'incomplete dominant' is probably a better term for how the ultra gene behaves in relation to amel.)
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This Space For Rent

That's why calling two recessive genes that happen to allelic with one another "co-dominant" is such a problem. It causes all sorts of misunderstandings and misapplications of actual terminology among people.

Neither amel nor ultra is a dominant gene in any the sense of the word, when compared to any genetic type (wild) except in relation to one another. So, perhaps it is best to call them "co-recessive", instead. They are expressed together (and only together) in the het form, but they are still not an example of dominance, because the wild type being introduced produces nothing but normals.

As to references to PMS et. al. (assuming one believes Kat's representation of your email...and having known her for a few years now, I do), why bring the discussion down to that base level, just because she pointed out an obvious error in your post about genetics of the ultramel? Why not either a) prove her to be incorrect, or b)just take your medicine and be thankful to have been educated a bit?
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

I did say thanks for clarifying it. And I am ok with being wrong, but not dead wrong. This is one of the if not the only type of gene in colubrids that expresses itself the way it does. In short, when it is mentioned most people are quick to say it is a co dom. Being a morph fanatic it instantly makes me think of Ball Pythons, so now this appears to be just a little different. That is fine, I made a mistake and said thanks for clarifying. Kat is not the only who is usually "never wrong", as I usually do not need to be corrected. There's a first time for everything, so great! Congrats on your successful lesson. Next, I will post a pic of my Anery Ultramel, cool? Tom Stevens

Bern Bechtel reported the first case of multiple alleles in Colubrids that I know of. Tyrosinase positive albino and xanthic in the black rat snake are both recessive to the normal allele and produce a xanthic//tpa heterozygote that is roughly intermediate in appearance between the two mutant homozygotes. This was in the Journal of Heredity back in 1985.

Such cases are rare in snakes because very few cases of multiple alleles have turned up so far. No doubt they will get more common as time passes and more mutants turn up.

Paul Hollander

and having known her for a few years now, I do

Isn't it interesting in this day and age that people consider that they know people just from emails and posts, without ever having met them or even chatted on the phone?

That having been said, there are definitely people I know online that I know far better than people I regularly see in person.

It's just one of those weird observations...

-Kat
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I agree.

I even considered qualifying the remark as I typed it, given that we have never met face to face. But since I figured that everyone who would read my statement would not be confused in any way in relation to a material fact, and since I was vouching for your consistent honesty in your writings (which was the context of the statement as it was made)...I determined that what I said was not misleading.

If, however, I have misjudged how that statement was taken (by you, Tom, or anyone else), or if I have been overly informal toward you in the process, I apologize completely. Nothing but the most sincere of intentions were mine as I wrote that post.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

It was meant as an odd observation, nothing more...

-Kat
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Nobody COMPLETELY answered the question... what does the gene really do aside from being codom with amel?
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

Amelanistic corns have a gene that codes for a nonfuctional version of the tyrosinase enzyme. Or perhaps the entire gene got deleted from the chromosome. Nobody will know which is right until the chromosome gets sequenced.

If ultra is an allele of amelanistic, as we believe, then probably the ultra mutant gene codes for an abnormal version of tyrosinase that can still act as a catalyst. But it is a less effective catalyst than the normal version of tyrosinase. It's a bottleneck in the biochemical assembly line and reduces the amount of melanin that rolls off the end of the line.

Paul Hollander

...you get less black and brown pigment. Corns homozygous for ultra look pretty darn close to hypo As. Ultramels look about halfway inbetween hypo and amelanistic.

-Kat
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This Space For Rent

That's much better Thanks for clearing that up.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

It is so much easier to understand in laymens term, although not always so easy to convert to leymans terms. LOL. I can usually follow along with the technical stuff, but none of it "sticks". Simple is always easy to remember.
Kat, you amaze me with the genetics. I know some, but don't think I will ever get the in depth knowledge that you have
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------Misty-------
We have enough youth....How about a fountain of smart?

...I picked up most of my knowledge just from working with cornsnakes and from talking to people who know more than I do on the subject...

-Kat
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This Space For Rent

ya, I am learning quite a bit from this forum. I have read a lot of books on corns and have the morph guide (have not gotten all the way through that one yet). I have worked with corns for almost 4 years now as pets, and have gained most of my knowledge in the last year since I started posting. My boyfriend has absolutely no interest in the genetice part of things and doesn't even know the names of the phases/morphs that we have! Its hard to hold a conversation with him on these matters.
Just want to take the chance to thank everyone for all their insight.
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------Misty-------
We have enough youth....How about a fountain of smart?

I agree.......?.......all I know is I had them at shows on table for $50 and didn't get a look at them..........hmmm.....LOL

didn't sell a one this year........and they are het for lavender too..........

......wonder why I put the adult male ultra in with 2 girls today then?.......

......hhhhmmmmm
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are they really?.....wow