Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, i have a burmese python thats about 4 and a half feet. Well, the first time I started her on large was about two weeks ago. When I first got the rat, it was from the pet store.I usually break the rats neck, but large is a bit hard, so I had them kill it. I dont know how they did it, but when I pulled it out of the box, it was warm, and had blood smered all over its face, and bloched on its body(not fully covered). My burm took it like there was no tommarrow. A week later, she started acting up, like when shes hungry. so I got a rat, only this time when i asked them to kill it, I pulled it out and it was still moving a bit. and no blood. So I broke its neck, and offered it, but she wouldnt take it. I figured she wasnt hungry, well its ben another week, Ive had the rat in my freezer. So today I got it out let it thaw all day, but its still cold. I put it in front of my space heater, and it was still cold inside. So i put it in some hot water and let it warm up(its in a baggy the whole time).so I got her out and tried offering it, she acted interested, but wouldnt take it. so I felt the rat and it was still cool.
so my question is, how do you heat up a thawed rat fully. so its body temp is as warm as when its killed?

You can try soaking it in warmer water, lay it under a heat lamp and turn it a few times to heat it evenly all the way through. It also may have been the smell of blood on the first one that triggered him the first time. Hope this helps.

Quig

First, unless you know the proper procedure for killing live rodents, you shouldn't do it....too many extremist animal rights groups that frequent these forums and stuff like this will get twisted the wrong way. Second, there is NO NEED TO FEED LIVE PREY....believe me, your burm will eventually take frozen/thawed prey (that's coming from 30 years of burm experience and not only keeping a large collection myself but rescuing 100's over the years...all took to f/t prey).

If you are organized and well planned, just place a frozen rat on a Kane style heat mat for 3-4 hours....it should feel warm when in your hand. Or, thaw first in tepid water, dry off and then place on the heat mat for an hour or two. As a last ditch effort, and not something I recommend but it does work, is to place a thawed rat in the microwave and heat for approximately 8 seconds (you have to be real careful as you don't want lethally hot internal temps; that will do far more harm than good)....sometimes boosting the internal temps will trigger a strong feeding response. We have to do this with our bushmasters as it is the only way they will accept dead prey....but that is the exception and I would highly recommend not having to resort to this method.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>Hello, i have a burmese python thats about 4 and a half feet. Well, the first time I started her on large was about two weeks ago. When I first got the rat, it was from the pet store.I usually break the rats neck, but large is a bit hard, so I had them kill it. I dont know how they did it, but when I pulled it out of the box, it was warm, and had blood smered all over its face, and bloched on its body(not fully covered). My burm took it like there was no tommarrow. A week later, she started acting up, like when shes hungry. so I got a rat, only this time when i asked them to kill it, I pulled it out and it was still moving a bit. and no blood. So I broke its neck, and offered it, but she wouldnt take it. I figured she wasnt hungry, well its ben another week, Ive had the rat in my freezer. So today I got it out let it thaw all day, but its still cold. I put it in front of my space heater, and it was still cold inside. So i put it in some hot water and let it warm up(its in a baggy the whole time).so I got her out and tried offering it, she acted interested, but wouldnt take it. so I felt the rat and it was still cool.
>> so my question is, how do you heat up a thawed rat fully. so its body temp is as warm as when its killed?
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Alright, ill give the heat lamp a try, and the warmer water. Should I start with a fresh rat, The one I have has ben unthawed twice now. Im woundering if it was the blood that triggered it, maybe I should bloody the face a bit before I feed it to her(dead of coarse).I guess if animal rights is an issue, I should stop killing the chimpanzees I breed, and quite feeding them to my bigger burm..lol, just joking. Thanks for the help, if the methods dont work ill post again.

Personally, I don't like to freeze a rodent more than once. It's probably not going to hurt the snake unless it was left thawed for a long time (many hours), but it's going to turn to mush on the second thawing and is likely to burst if he constricts it. Very nasty...

Burms that are used to feeding on live or even freshly killed need to really want to eat a frozen/thawed rodent (even when it has been re-warmed). I would recommend fasting the snake for about three to four weeks, get him good and hungry, and then offer a frozen/thawed prey item and see what happens.

>>Alright, ill give the heat lamp a try, and the warmer water. Should I start with a fresh rat, The one I have has ben unthawed twice now. Im woundering if it was the blood that triggered it, maybe I should bloody the face a bit before I feed it to her(dead of coarse).I guess if animal rights is an issue, I should stop killing the chimpanzees I breed, and quite feeding them to my bigger burm..lol, just joking. Thanks for the help, if the methods dont work ill post again.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Wow this is a first for me, I have to disagree with Mr. Carmichael here... Well it is more of an extra caution than disagree with. My wife has several years killing experience (with rats and mice mostly, though I always watch my back, lol) when she worked with a local zoo. During her "mass mousy genocide" she attempted on a couple of occasions (at home) nuking a rat prior to giving it to our ball. Even when she attempted it for only a few seconds (always less than 10) the rat exploded or at the least ruptured. She has tried a few different microwaves and the outcome was always the same. I would say stick with the heat pad or heat lamp. Just make sure you don't do it too long, my son forgot to feed it out before school... When I got home it was not a pretty site (OR SMELL!). Keep in mind though, Rob does have much more experience in this area, but you really don't want to chance a rat bomb if possible, no matter how much you clean it out that image sticks with you!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Nice to see folks disagree with me every now and then; nothing wrong with that. Like I said, I do NOT advocate this practice but in extreme cases, may work. The microwave I use has a very low power value and I have never had to worry about exploding rodents....but I also take internal temps with a thermometer to make sure that the internal temps are not at dangerous levels. This is something I should have mentioned in my other post...always use a thermometer and make sure that the internal temps are not above 95 deg F.

>>Wow this is a first for me, I have to disagree with Mr. Carmichael here... Well it is more of an extra caution than disagree with. My wife has several years killing experience (with rats and mice mostly, though I always watch my back, lol) when she worked with a local zoo. During her "mass mousy genocide" she attempted on a couple of occasions (at home) nuking a rat prior to giving it to our ball. Even when she attempted it for only a few seconds (always less than 10) the rat exploded or at the least ruptured. She has tried a few different microwaves and the outcome was always the same. I would say stick with the heat pad or heat lamp. Just make sure you don't do it too long, my son forgot to feed it out before school... When I got home it was not a pretty site (OR SMELL!). Keep in mind though, Rob does have much more experience in this area, but you really don't want to chance a rat bomb if possible, no matter how much you clean it out that image sticks with you!
>>-----
>>Bryan, Atlanta GA
>>
>>1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
>>0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
>>0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
>>0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
>>1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
>>0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
>>0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
>>1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
>>0-1-0 Wife
>>2-0-0 Kids
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I wonder if the hole from the internal thermometer poke is keeping them from popping? LOL.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Rescued Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Rescued Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-1-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-0-1 Rescued Dieting Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
0-1-0 Rescued Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

I would caution against overly heating a pre-killed or frozen rat. I used to drive myself crazy wondering why my Ball wouldnt accept frozen prey at the time so it turns out I was so concerned with heating it up and not leaving anything cold that I would end up cooking it without realizing it, leaving a foul stench that no python would want. Someone told me to leave the frozen prey out overnight or less (depending on the size but at least 6 hrs) to make it room temp. Then offer it. If it doesnt take it then dip it in warm or hot water for 2 seconds (not scorching hot). Then offer immediately. This will stimulate detection through your pythons thermal receptors as well as not have cooked the rat internally. Hope this helps.

Mr Carmichael...
I also use the microwave to heat prey for one very picky male.
Unless his prey is hot, he wont touch it.
We was'nt always that way. Don't know how or why the change came.
Just gotta be careful. My microwave has many adjustment levels.
I do admit, I have turned more than one rat to mush by overheating.
And overheated rat does not have a pleasant smell.
Just gotta heat em slow.

I think Im going to wait a few weeks before I trie feeding her. get her a little more hungry. I dont think ill nuke it, but the heat lamp sounds like a good idea.

sorry about the blood pic, the one on top is my burm, she is a female.