Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone every tried feeding flour beetle adults to their baby box turtles? I have a vet friend who introduced me to them. He feeds the larvae to his dendrobatids. The larvae are too tiny for me to deal with, but the beetles seem like they'd make a good snack for my little guys. I'm afraid that they may be too hard, unpalatable, or have some other attribute that excludes them. Any ideas? Thanks.
P.S. If you haven't tried phoenix worms yet...they are flippin' awesome. I haven't had a turtle turn them down yet...even those stubborn babies that refused earthworms for their first month of life. I can't wait until the price goes down on them.

I hope someone else will answer you. I'm not sure what a flour beetle looks like.
We have some sort of very hard black beetle that wanders around our yard in summer. I didn't think the boxies would want to eat those because they are so hard shelled... until I heard a loud CRUNCH one day. lol
I'm now not so sure that hard crunchy bugs are all that bad for them. I would assume that you wouldn't want to overfeed them something hard because you wouldn't want them to get blocked intestines.

I've still not seen Phoenix worms anywhere but I've discovered that my Janie likes wax worms. While she was sick & I was having a horrible time finding something she'd eat, I found that she really liked the wax worms. They paved the way to getting her back into eating normally.
Yesterday I found out that Chip likes them too. Hobo, Shell E, & Charity will take just about anything I offer, I wish they were all like that.
So are you finding these Phoenix worms through mail order or locally?
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PHRatz

The kind of larvae that my friend feeds his frogs is from the 'Confused flour beetle'. The Red flour beetle is commonly known as a monstrous pest. The Confused is less so because apparently they can't fly. I would be hesitant to deal with them, since they are so small and could easily fall into the carpet or something. I just can't resist new food sources for my little guys.
I feel pretty free to share that I purchase phoenix worms from Wormman. He advertises on this site. I've corresponded with a nice lady who works for him, and so far I really like the company. Armstrong crickets also sells them at the shows near me...I'll drive a few hours just to load up on these guys since they are so much cheaper there. As of yet, I don't think Armstrong offers them for purchase over the net. I may be wrong. If you're only feeding adult turtles, I would bother with phoenix worms. They are incredibly small, even the large individuals. I've never seen one close to the size of an adult waxworm. They are just so great for hatchlings, which I try extra hard to vary diet and maximize dietary calcium. Thanks for the reply.

Phoenix Worms are now offered through almost every major feeder seller via the internet.
Prices vary from $10.00 for 150 in a cup to $4.50 for 150 cup. Prices drop when ordered in larger quanties; so find a partner to split the costs.
I don’t want to favor one breeder over another. Interested parties can do a general search for “Phoenix Worms.” Many will be available.
They have an especially high calcium to phosphorus ratio. Terrific food for boxies.

Flour beetles also commonly called Bran Bugs are found in two varieties; the Red Rust Flour Beetle and the Confused Flour Beetle. Both are approximately 1/8 inch long. Both live on any floured grain, or grain that has the seed coat broken such as barley, rye, oats, wheat and corn, all cereals, and cereal products, any dried fruit, and chocolate.. etc. While the larvae and pupae stage may be an OK source of boxie food; the adults exude a foul odor when disturbed. May be a bit discouraging for some boxies...while others may relish them.

The biggest concern is their ability to propagate unintentionally throughout the house with so many available food sources. Often they become an infestation in cabinet crevices and pantries. Consequently pest control experts are called to rid houses full of them....However if kept under tight scrutiny in a shed away from living quarters; they may answer your needs.

Ric

>>>> They have an especially high calcium to phosphorus ratio. Terrific food for boxies.

I did a search & found them. I see that they do advertise them as high in calcium. That sounds great, I think I'll try a cup of worms soon.

>>
>>Flour beetles also commonly called Bran Bugs are found in two varieties; the Red Rust Flour Beetle and the Confused Flour Beetle. Both are approximately 1/8 inch long. Both live on any floured grain, or grain that has the seed coat broken such as barley, rye, oats, wheat and corn, all cereals, and cereal products, any dried fruit, and chocolate.. etc.

I'm sure I've seen them. I've kept flour & foods like it in the refrigerator to avoid bugs for years & years.. but I have a feeling that those nasty worms I cooked 20 years or so ago were the larva of the flour beetle. Didn't know they were in the box of spaghetti when I dumped it in the pot of boiling water, that was a disgusting mess I had to clean.
If that's what we're talking about, my turtles can live without them.
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PHRatz

It sounds like it's not worth the trouble. I was just hunting for someone who may have attempted to feed them to their turtles. As the temperatures warm up, I won't be so desperate to find insects to purchase. Soon, the Junebugs will be stuck en-masse to my screen door, the slugs will be hanging around the beer traps, the grasshoppers will be grasshopping, and the dung beetles will be devouring my buddies' horsie yard decorations. Oh what fun!

Flour beetles can invade your spaghetti boxes, oatmeal boxes, dried milk, or dried cake boxes also. They most probably were the ones you cooked inadvertently.

Too bad you threw it out.. You had just made a meal with very high protein in it!

Glad you were able to find the Phoenix Worms while doing a search. If you check carefully you can get them at half of the highest price listed.

Good Luck,
Ric

>>Flour beetles can invade your spaghetti boxes, oatmeal boxes, dried milk, or dried cake boxes also. They most probably were the ones you cooked inadvertently.
>>
>>Too bad you threw it out.. You had just made a meal with very high protein in it!
>>

One word for that:
BLECH!!
LOL

>> Glad you were able to find the Phoenix Worms while doing a search. If you check carefully you can get them at half of the highest price listed.

I did find more than one seller & one of those did offer half the price of the first one I found.
I think because Janie is the most finicky of them & it's hard to get calcium into her via powder, it's worth a try for her.
Plus I have a frog, a lizard, & 2 small aquatic turtles so if these worms are too small for an adult box turtle, I think I can find something around here to eat them.
Cup O' Worms!
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PHRatz

Someone mentioned slugs. How does one go about finding slugs, and snails for that matter? It's pretty dry around here, but there must be some!

If you attract them with beer, are they still ok to feed to the boxies?
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0.1.0 ornate box turtle
1.0.0 eastern box turtle
0.1.0 Australian shepard
1.9.0 chickens
3.2.0 children (do I still count the married ones?)
1.0.0 husband

I put out cups of cheap beer with fine screen mesh on top taped down with duct tape. They can't reach the beer. In my humid climate, there will be slugs covering them by morning. This started out as an effort to save my tomatoes, squash, hostas, etc. I never fully understood how many of these little things I could harvest for my turtles...I literally get hundreds per week. In your area, find rotted logs, boards, plastic sheets, and anything else that harbors moisture underneath. Flip them over, and if your area has a good population of slugs, snails, worms, you should find them underneath. I know I'm a geek, but please replace whatever you flip over in the spot where you find it...gotta preserve the microhabitat!

Thanks for the info. I'll try this, if'n it ever gets to be summer again! lol

I have turned over logs etc. around here, usually just fine ants, pill bugs, and maybe a centipede!
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0.1.0 ornate box turtle
1.0.0 eastern box turtle
0.1.0 Australian shepard
1.9.0 chickens
3.2.0 children (do I still count the married ones?)
1.0.0 husband

Don't exclude Pill Bugs; as boxies LOVE live Pill Bugs!!

Ric

Making note to self...
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0.1.0 ornate box turtle
1.0.0 eastern box turtle
0.1.0 Australian shepard
1.9.0 chickens
3.2.0 children (do I still count the married ones?)
1.0.0 husband