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What is dominant trait in Cal kings Banded or Striped? When paired together, is there an outcome of a small percentage of Abberant offspring?

I want to understand how the "banana" phase came to be as well. I have a banana that I am considering pairing with an albino banded, but can't figure out what the off spring would look like. Has anyone bred these together?

I know lots of questions...I have a good basic understanding of the genetics, but Cal Kings genetics seem so expansive. I appreciate what answers anyone could offer.

thanks
Dawn

aren't stripes an aberration?

The VAST majority of Cal Kings I see are banded...

Kevin

Banded is the normal pattern. The striped mutant gene is dominant to the normal version of the striped gene. Heterozygous striped produces a lot of the "aberrant" patterns.

The results of a striped x banded mating depends on whether the striped snake is homozygous or heterozygous.

Heterozygous striped x banded --> 1/2 normal (banded), 1/2 heterozygous striped (with good stripes ranging to aberrant patterns)

Homozygous striped x banded --> all heterozygous striped (with good stripes ranging to aberrant patterns)

As far as I know, the only certain way to tell the difference between a homozygous striped and a heterozygous striped king is by breeding test.

I'd like to know the genetics of banana phase, too. My guess is that there are several independent mutant genes involved. If you mate an albino banded to a banana, you will not get any albinos unless the banana is heterozygous albino. But your guess is as good as mine as to what you actually would get.

Good luck.

Paul Hollander

Thanks for clearing up some of thatPaul.

Yes the Albino female cal king was sold to me as being Het for banana but there is some controversy over that, and the Banana Cal is Het for Albino so I am certain the albino trait will come through on some of the offspring.

No such thing as het for banana, as banana is a color description and IS NOT a recessive gene. It is an aberrancy.

Kerby...

I am glad you stated that because that is what the "controversy" was over. I had previously been told that Banana was a color morph not a recessive trait. However, I am very happy with the female of course so it didnt matter a great deal.

I would still like to understand more how that shows up in breeding of offspring though.

I will be the first to admit that there is more to learn (more like discover) in cal king genetics. Here is what we know:

Recessive genes:
Albinism
Ghost (not an accurate term, but accepted)
Hypermelanism (Mendota/Davis/Baja)
Hypomelanism (Lavenders-both types/Blue-eyed Blonde/El Dorado) I believe that there are more hypomelanistic genes that are not compatible that haven't been "labeled" yet, but are definitely out there. And to confuse this topic a little more, there are cal kings that are producing more than one type of hypomelanism in the same clutches (parents from 2 different lines).

Then we start to combine these recessive genes with cal kings displaying 2 or more recessive genes at the same time. We then label these cal kings, but must understand what genetics are in them. I know for a fact that I have wholesaled out almost 1,000 cal kings that are hets or double hets in the past.

Aberrancies (not banded or stripe) are not recessive. In other words, there is no such thing as het for high white or het for banana, etc... Those are not recessive genes, but "labels" that we use to describe an aberrancy. Unfortunately there are some descriptions that are inaccurate ("snow" being one of them). When breeding aberrancies, the outcome is not as predictable as with recessive genes. I will admit that if you keep breeding the same pair of aberrant cal kings together that you will more than likely know what they will produce from that same pair. Breed them to other aberrant partners and then the outcome will be different. Also, aberrancy will automatically break up the banded pattern on the first breeding. High whites and bananas (yellow) were produced through selective breeding by picking out the best offspring and breeding back/or by selective breeding (choosing other locales).

Also, it is inaccurate to describe a cal king as an Albino Lavender, unless that cal king is displaying both albino & lavender at the same time. Otherwise, it is either albino, or it is lavender.

The verdict is still out on other cal kings to see if their appearance is a product of a recessive gene or because of line breeding.

Also, to further muddy the equation, in the past 10 years there have been some taxonomy changes (adding/deleting) certain classifications. So in general, the cal king opportunities have expanded. And I will bet that in the next 20-30 years there will be more grouping in taxonomy with cal kings.

Here is a link to some of my cal kings. It is a never ending task trying to get pics of all the cal kings that I have. Plus I have sold a lot of my breeders (projects) in the past few years so that I can concentrate on others. "Can't have them all" LOL

Kerby...
California Kingsnakes

Kerby and FR,

thanks so much for the mini genetics session guys. This is such useful information and I know that there is much more to "discover" as you so aptly put it Kerby.

Best regards to you both!

Great pictures on your web site, Kerby!

Do you have a list of dominant mutant genes in Cal kings? Most of what I know about their genetics comes from Richard Zweifels' paper in the Journal of Heredity, and that came out in 1982. People must know more now. For example, I expect that someone has worked out the genetics of the pattern abnormality that Zweifel called Long Beach morph. Whatever it's being called in the trade, now.

I really need to spend more time looking around the Cal king sites.

Paul Hollander

axanthics

I think there are three axanthics in with the hets in this pic.

You should understand, without the complete history of your snakes, you cannot predict anything. It doesn't matter what is dominant or co-dominant or a simple recessive. You do understand, as always, what your kings history is and what you were told, do not have to be the same. I am not saying you were purposely lied to. The last owner may be like you. Only knew the last piece of information. Genetics is more then the last piece of information.

The truth is, most captive kings are products of many types(locals) of kings. These types have specific ways they interact with eachother(natural) and specific ways they interact with other locals. As mentioned, you do not have any idea of what your snakes are products of.

So at this time the only way to get an idea(and it will only be an idea) of the genetics of your kings is to breed them.(to test)

For instance, these days if you breed a perfect striped with another perfect striped, you may not get all stripes, but instead variation of stripes and abberents. Same with bandeds. Even breeding abberents, you will get both stripes and bandeds. On top of that. You can recieve a varity of base colors, banana, white, dark brown, lite brown, yellow, etc, all from one clutch. These results will give you an indication of some of the recent history of your snakes. If the offspring come out monotypic(all the same) then you may have wild caughts.

Wild caughts are prejudiced to their enviornment. That is, they are selected for. This is not true with captive lines. Well, its sorta selected, we breed for specific traits, but we do not kill of the ones we do not want. One keeper may select for a specific trait, but once others get that stock, they select for something different. You know, I really like those, but if I add this trait, maybe, just maybe, I can get something???????? better, different, etc.

To end a short story made long, you cannot predict without complete knowledge of your snakes history. Plus the understanding of genetics. Cool beans kings hey

Thanks for clearing up the striped vs banded issue. Wow Cal kings are quite the large genetics topic!