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I was looking to get one of the solid black, black rats. The breeder that i went to had a few different colored black rats. He had some that were golen looking, some brown, some tan. I know some black rats have the black saddle look and others are solid black. My question is, why is it called a black rat snake if it is one of those other phases that never turn black? Should each phase have a different name like each phase of corn snake? Did I miss something. This is my first rat (although if you count corns, I have 20 of those). I could not pass this girl up as she was so silvery. The pic does not do her justice. I want to eventually pair her up with a male that is mostly, if not pure black.

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------Misty-------
We have enough youth....How about a fountain of smart?

Because the black phase was most likely discovered first. I am willing to bet that when first described (hundreds of years ago) they had no idea the two localities were even the same snake.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

Hey thanks for showing me the black rat by the way. Still looking for the all black ones for sale. I might even get the leucistic rat. those black eyes, with the pure white body is cool.
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------Misty-------
We have enough youth....How about a fountain of smart?

I may have some f1's that are all black in 07. No guarantees until then though.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Ball Python "Wilson" (Castaway)
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Onyx"

Also in regards to calling them all specific names - corn snakes are often genetic sports that sort of follow things like autosomal recessive/dominant, codominant, variable expression and penetrance, so when you name a cornsnake morph you sort of have soemthing you're really identifying - a specific gene.
Black ratsnakes are just highly variable. They have great local variation in colour/pattern as well as to when and how fast ontogenic change happens, so it's a complex thing in them. It's not quite so simple to pin down as a type A anerythristic corn. I have a black rat from two albino parents that is huge and solid black, while her sister does a creditable imitation of a texas - grey and brown markings. While you can certainly linebreed black rats to produce animals with certain traits (or identify things like amelanism, leucisim, licorice sticks etc) it's still hard to guarantee that this snake will be jet black by one year of age...

Plus, I personally hope that the trend in corn snakes to identify any somewhat unusual animals as a new morph, name it, and then sell hets before it's proven to be genetic stays with corns. It's kind of irritating - much like ball pythons for me.

I like the temperment and intellect of my black rats far too much to actually care how black they turn out.

>>
>>Plus, I personally hope that the trend in corn snakes to identify any somewhat unusual animals as a new morph, name it, and then sell hets before it's proven to be genetic stays with corns. It's kind of irritating - much like ball pythons for me.
>>

That is not really happening.
If a corn snake is labled as a new morph and sold as such, you can bet they have gone through many many trials and are proven geneticaly.
Yes, there are a few small time breeders that may give a fancy name to a snake to try and enhance sales but this doesn't get by for long.
You damn well better have proof before trying that in the mainstream corn world. They will make sure the truth gets out, quickly. Whenever someone tries this it is quickly challanged and exposed as either the truth or fraud.
What you may not realize is the speed at which new genetic morphs are being discovered and produced in the corn snake world.
There are now at least three different forms of hypomelanism in corns and probably four.
Just those three or four different forms of hypomelanism can lead to an astounding number of genetically specific, and reproducable, morphs.
That doesn't even scratch the surfface of all the PROVEN morphs and patterns.
The list of proven morphs grows almost daily.
It is nothing like the ball python mess.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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I know Dwight Good & Michael Jollef (spelling?) produce solid black "Black Ratsnakes" Here is a pic of my 05 male from Dwight Good. He will change into a solid jet black obsoleta.

Steve

>>Here is a pic of my 05 male from Dwight Good. He will change into a solid jet black obsoleta.

Steve,
Of course there are no 100% guarantees on that, but the likelihood of him turning black are better than average I'd say, Thanks for the plug.

dg

True that Dwight. I guess I shouldn't have made it sound like he would turn jet black without a doubt. After seeing pics of your adult breeders, I think he's going to turn out pretty nice.
Steve

>>Of course there are no 100% guarantees on that, but the likelihood of him turning black are better than average I'd say, Thanks for the plug.

Are you kidding me? C'mon people!

dg

>>Are you kidding me? C'mon people!
>>

I definitely agree Dwight.
The pictures are blurry but my first thought was everglades.
Your thoughts?
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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When I first looked at the photos, I was thinking Gray, but on closer inspection, I would guess that it is a Black Rat intergrade. I am guessing that only because the seller was calling them Black Rats, and he had the female.

Virginia Black Rat rescued from a home in York Co. I will be warming this one up and a male from the same area in March.

>>When I first looked at the photos, I was thinking Gray, but on closer inspection, I would guess that it is a Black Rat intergrade. I am guessing that only because the seller was calling them Black Rats, and he had the female.
>>

I kind of leaned towards grey but there seems to be quite a bit more color then I would think for a grey.
Of course it could just be the photograhy.
I would love to see clearer pics.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

>>The pictures are blurry but my first thought was everglades.
>>Your thoughts?

Looks exactly like a south Florida yellow rat snake to me, although it could be a 'weak' everglades rat as well. Definitely NOT a black rat or even a black rat intergrade that's for sure. Sounds like the seller doesn't know much about his animals (but that's really no surprise to me these days.)

dg

Here is a photo of two hatchling yellow rat snakes. The one on the left is from central Florida bloodlines (Seminole County x Hillsborough County) and the one on the right is from south Florida (Palm Beach County) bloodlines.

For comparison sakes, below is a photo of two hatchling black rat snakes. The one on the left is from "solid black" bloodlines and the one on the right is just a normal hatchling from breeding an albino het whitesided to a normal double het albino and whitesided.

dg

So you are all saying not a black rat, but actually yellow? I am new to the whole rat snake thing. I bought him from the valley serpentarium http://www.snakemuseum.com/
thanks
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------Misty-------
We have enough youth....How about a fountain of smart?

>>So you are all saying not a black rat, but actually yellow?

Yep, that is definitely not a black rat. Based on the photos you posted it might be a yellow but I can't be 100% certain.

dg

i agree-seen anough black rats to know that is not one-too light....my first guess is yellow,like dwight said....if it's not a yellow,it's a glades(probably with yellow in it,whether the breeder knew it or not)...a black rat,and a gray too,would be more strongly patterned.(same pattern,more contrast).

also-'black rat snake' is just the common name given to it....you probably already know now that they start off patterned....those you're asking about are selectively bred by hobbyists for 'market sizzle',or what have you.....leucistic(all white,dark eyes)...rusty(yep,rusty colored,with varying amounts of pattern traces)...brindled(like the rusty,maybe a little stronger pattern,i'm not sure exactly)...licorice stick/white sided(white flanks,dark grayish dorsal coloration)...and amelanistic(white/cream colored with pink blotches and eyes)...these are all 'morphs' of your black rat snake..be specific,tell the breeder you don't want a morph if you want an all black black rat snake-ad rememebr ,they won't get almost/all black until about 2 years of age or so.