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This is for you suboc wizards.......

I read the scanned magazine article on the very well done suboc website ( Simply Subocs ) that dusty roads is hosting.
I was totally captivated by the account of keeping an animal without water at all, only regular feedings.

My question:
Has anyone else tried leaving water out completely with success?

This actually makes sense, but I'm not sure I have enough nerve to try it without more credible testimonials.
Maybe once a month?
Maybe once a quarter?
Maybe once every six months?

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Regards, Bill McGighan

No real experience with subocs, but when I owned a Rosy-boa, I placed water in the enclosure two days out of the week. The other five, I would leave it out. My rosy thrived during the year or so I owned her. Ended up doing a trade, so I no longer have any Rosys. The particular enclosure that I kept the rosy in would tend to keep a higher humidity if a water bowl was left in all the time. Had I used a setup with more ventilation, I may have used a water bowl 24/7

Steve

Which I forgot in the last post. No, I've never left water out for longer then five days out of a week. I don't think I would have the nerve either, to try it any longer then what I wrote in the last post.

Steve

I had one rosy go over a year with no water, it had escaped in a snake proof room and showed up a over a year later about 16 months with no water. My rosy bowls are kept dry except for every other week for one day only. I do beleive that in their underground environment they are a bit damp and cool but in captivity overcompinsating seems to work. How often do rosys get a drink in the desert? Three times per year?
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Yes, Ihave withheld water with no ill effects and mine have bred successfully. I now offer water when they are in the blue and once every two weeks for one day only. In a heat taped rack it is easier to keep it dry that way. Dusty uses damp sppagnum which will not generaly mold. I would agree with him to a point that mold (stagnent air is the real issue) but I have a hunch that they are not tolerent of the chlorine that is in tap water. Mine get water that has been standing a while. Captive hatched are tougher than wild caught. I keep both.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Thanks, Bill M., for the compliment. I really try to make Simply Subocs helpful to the suboc community.
I will copy and paste something from a Facts/Myths page that I wrote for subocs.com (that isn't up yet). It's very general, but I hope it helps, because I've included some of my own observances of captive animals.
The bottom line why I think it is not good to leave water out for more than a couple days is that we don't know what the snake is thinking, and it is always best to give captive animals as many options as possible. If it were possible, I would have several hiding places in all of the cages...one that is damp and cool, another that is damp and warmed, another that is dry and cool, and yet another that is dry and warmed.
Wild subocs sleep in humid and damp environments, and the tick that plagues them in the wild needs dampness to survive.
So I don't believe humidity is the issue.
As far as the chlorinated tap water, I'm not aware of any studies that have confirmed that it is harmful or beneficial, either way. If we don't know, but only speculate, then that may need to be studied in a lab somewhere. But let's keep in mind that many subocs have thrived for YEARS on tap water. The captive record for a TPRS is 23 years, I believe. Doug Mader's herp medicine & surgery book shows another "H-snake" longevity record of 18 years.
With that said, I'll copy and post what I have written below:

“Do subocs always need water in their cage?”
From my observations, absolutely. Certain individuals in my collection “drink like a fish” as soon as I replace their water if I had removed it from their cage for more than a day. With other subocs of mine, it doesn’t seem to faze them much if there is no water for a couple of days (but no more than that, mind you).
I mention this because some of the early literature on TP rat husbandry speaks of some keepers who kept their subocs without water except when it was offered maybe once a year. They thought this was good for them.
My guess is that a lot of keepers, even as early as 15 years ago, did not fully understand the humidity/ventilation issue the way we understand it now. It isn’t as important to keep a water bowl out of the cage as much as it is important to keep fresh air moving in and out of the cage. That is why A/C is usually a must in a humid location.
In fact, all of the successful breeders that I speak with keep the water bowl in at all times.
Simply Subocs

I keep water in with mine. I use a bowl only about 4 inches in diameter..big enough for them to drink but not so large as to soak, spill or change humidity much. I am a forgetful person and would be afraid I wouldn't get em water enough if I withheld it. My cages have good ventilation as well. The both ALWAYS have complete perfect sheds(no soaking) and are healthy in every way. I can see it working both ways..just wanted to offer another data point.

John

Thanks so much to all.

Every response was insightful in its own way.

As someone who was "hit and miss" with subocs for years, a pivot point for me was ventilation; I put fans on suboc cages. If you’ve ever stood on a cut in the “Big Bend” at 2AM in August, it’s hard not to notice the constant wind.

Living in a fairly humid area, I’ve tried a cycling dehumidifier (on for 2 days off for 2 days) in the snake room. Anecdotally, this seems to have helped.

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Regards, Bill McGighan

Interesting thread.

I'm not sure how much the humidity would affect subocs, I've never kept one, but I don't think keeping a smallish water container in the cage would hurt them. My water containers don't affect the humidity much and I would be afraid of adverse affects from withholding water.

The reason I posted, however, is because you mentioned putting fans on the suboc cages. I think they stay underground most of the time and aren't subject to the wind much. I would be cautious about putting a steady flow of air on them. If they get chilled it wouldn't be too good. I've always kept my snakes away from drafts and doorways because of a bad situation I had once long ago. Not saying the fan would hurt them, just saying I'd be cautious.

Good luck with them..I'd like to hear how they do.

Regards....TC

Back in the "90"s I used to breed Blondes, normals and Baja rats.
All with small water bowls always filled with fresh water.
My setups were a bit different and any spilled water dried up quick!
Mike
Mike's Monitors!