Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what does the f1 f2 stuff mean??? I've never heard it until recently looking on the classifieds...
Thanks
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2.0 Cats
1.0 Chihuahua mix
0.1 Guyana Red Tail
0.2 Columbian Red Tails
0.2 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Sulcata Tortoise
0.0.1 Leopard Tortoise
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Western Hognose
1.3 Sugar Gliders
0.1 Chinchilla

which could be off because I wasn't real clear on the explanation when I asked the same question a few years ago...
F stands for "FILIAL" which basically means generation (like the generation X-ers).

Now, you get F1 babies when you breed two animals together.
You get F2's when you breed two of those F1 babies together.
You get F3's when you breed two of those F2 babies together.
So on and so forth. It's basically a connotation for line-bred animals.

Now, if you breed an F3 male to an unrelated female, you now have a new crop of F1's. Similarly, if you breed an F3 female to an unrelated male, you now have a new crop of F1's.

I asked what happens when you breed an F3 animal to one of their F4 progeny and I never really received a clear answer so I don't know the answer to that.

Hope this helps and above all, I hope this is right, lol!
jb

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Jonathan Brady
"Sarcasm is angers ugly cousin" -Dr. Buddy Rydell (Jack Nicholson) in "Anger Management".

Ohhh ok that helps alot... I thought I had an idea and I was close but that helps alot... now is that a problem to breed f1 babies together? and f2 babies and so on? Or is it fine to breed babies from the same parents? I heard that it was ok maybe for the first few generations but after a few generations it wasn;t a good thing...
Thanks
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2.0 Cats
1.0 Chihuahua mix
0.1 Guyana Red Tail
0.2 Columbian Red Tails
0.2 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Sulcata Tortoise
0.0.1 Leopard Tortoise
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Western Hognose
1.3 Sugar Gliders
0.1 Chinchilla

While it generally seems ok to breed siblings, problems have arisen. It is always advised to purchased non-sibling animals and other unrelated stock to impove the gene pool. Sometimes this is not possible if only one pair of animals was imported, in which case all available offspring are decendants of the original pair.

It seems ok to imbreed a few generations without problems, as this does occur to some degree in the wild, but outcrossing is always recommended.
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It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper stored up acorns for winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched tv. And then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus stole all his acorns, and he got a race car. Is any of this sinking in?

Ok...
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2.0 Cats
1.0 Chihuahua mix
0.1 Guyana Red Tail
0.2 Columbian Red Tails
0.2 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Sulcata Tortoise
0.0.1 Leopard Tortoise
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Western Hognose
1.3 Sugar Gliders
0.1 Chinchilla

for proveing genetics, or isolateing certain traits. Once the desired result is obtained which usually takes no more than 4 generations, outbreeding is needed to strengthen the variety of genes that might otherwise lead to health problems/deformaties.

In the case of RARE animals were only one or two pairs are initially brought in it is EXTREMELY important to know what the filial generation is so that they can be responsibly bred to maintain a diverse gene pool. (ie: when working with F1, whose parents were the only other breeding animals, breed F1 offspring that are as different as possible together)

Ohh ok... I see.. Thanks
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2.0 Cats
1.0 Chihuahua mix
0.1 Guyana Red Tail
0.2 Columbian Red Tails
0.2 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Sulcata Tortoise
0.0.1 Leopard Tortoise
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Western Hognose
1.3 Sugar Gliders
0.1 Chinchilla

F3 x F4 = F4...

it's based on the lesser filial generation, is my understanding!

but i did sleep through high school bio... i only got interested in this stuff when i got into boas!

funny how that works, isn't it?

bc

I dont think they have a designation for F3xF4. I think each one is to show how far down they have been imbreed to clarify gene transfer and where they show up (ie, skip a generation or two, etc.)
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It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper stored up acorns for winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched tv. And then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus stole all his acorns, and he got a race car. Is any of this sinking in?

Awesome boa you have there! Is she F2...3???? Supposed origin?

Many thanks!
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signature file edited, contact an admin. 2/13/06

Agreed with the other posts, Fx indicates the number of genereations line bred from the same two parent animals.

While line breeding is common to get traits you want, you also are line breedingtraights you don't. For example the EBV line of Hpomelanistic BRB's. The whole line originated from a pair of siblings that came from the same breeder. The first hypo's (recessive trait in BRB's) were from those two siblings. Now a few generations later there are problems with the animals regurgitating. This seems to be rapidly cured with one generation of outcrossing so is not totally messed up. The regurge problems started about F3 or so.

One other point is if you are purchasing "siblings" for breeding, they may NOT be F1's, the parents could also have been siblings which would make them F2's. grandparents the same? - F3's etc. etc.

Last point is thst sibling does not necessarily mean from same clutch. For example Male X crossed with Female Y two years ago produced a clutch of really nice babies. Duh, let's do that again and last year they produced another clutch of really nice babies. Both clutches are 100% siblings so a 2004 crossed with a 2005 could still be line breeding.

Bottom line IMO, line breeding is not the best way to go but sometimes necessary to get the results you desire. To be avoided if possible and if not possible to avoid, proceed with caution.
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

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sig file edited, contact an admin. 2/13/06

Ok thanks again guys..
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2.0 Cats
1.0 Chihuahua mix
0.1 Guyana Red Tail
0.2 Columbian Red Tails
0.2 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Sulcata Tortoise
0.0.1 Leopard Tortoise
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.0.1 Western Hognose
1.3 Sugar Gliders
0.1 Chinchilla