Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,
I have been reading through this forum for the past several days, as well as several other informative websites on Dendrobates and their husbandry needs.
I am planning a large vivarium for darts and mantellas, a few small tree frogs (clowns) and perhaps a small phelsuma or two as well.
I understand that it is not 'ideal' to house more than one species of dart frog together in small enclosures.
However, I have the space and means to have just about any size vivarium constructed to meet the needs of houseing at least 3 or 4 different species.
My question is this: What is the ideal shape/size of an enclosure to comfortably house say 4 different dart frog species? Should it say be a large cube, say 48"x48"x24"tall or more rectangular, say 72"x36"x24"tall?
I'm assuming that since these guys are terrestrial, they would prefer more 'wandering' room laterally rather than vertically?
Any additional help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
I won't do anything of course until this is all planned out for the best interest of the frogs themselves.
Thanks
Sean

I would suggest raising the frogs you are interested in separately in different tanks and getting some experience with them before considering mixing them together in a larger tank. They all have somewhat different requirements, come from different environments, and even different parts of the world. I doubt that Mantellas from Madagascar would get along well with darts of South American rain forests, because their natural environments, although somewhat similar, are different, and in spite of their common name of "poison frog," they are not closely related. Even different species and genera of Dendrobatidae don't always get along well together. I don't think that any tank size you mentioned would be ideal for providing the various temperatures, humidity, food items, territorial competition, and temparature/humidity habitat they all require in captivity. But they are certainly fun to keep separately.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

Well, and I mean no offense with these replies, but as far as I can tell, and from what I've read on just about every single dart frog breeder on the net, ALL of these dart frogs and mantellas require temps in the low to mid 70's, with relatively high humidity. These are the 'recommendations' from just about everyone, even most of the experienced hobbyists on this forum.
I have not seen a single informative site that says 'this' species needs exactly 72 degrees at 80% relative humidity and 'this' species needs 74 degrees with 90% relative humidity and so on. They're all lumped into the same sum with the 'general' requirements being considered 'appropriate' for all.
The same holds true for food choices and size of enclosure. I've read many many times the general 5 gallons per 1 frog 'requirement' and that all of these guys eat fruit flies, pin head to 1/8th inch crickets, wax worms, etc..
So, I don't feel that there is an exact unalterable requirement for any of these particular frogs, as long as their basics are covered in terms of temp/humidity/food and space.
The same holds true for mantellas. I have not seen anything that states these species require different parameters to be happy and prolific.
I disagree that a larger vivarium can not meet these requirements as well as small separate containers. In fact, a large vivarium offers a greater range in temperatures and humidity 'throughout' the environment allowing the frogs to choose the spot that is most comfortable to them. When you stick these guys in a 10 or 20 gallon tank, how far can they go if they get uncomfortable?
Again, I mean no offense and I know that typed responses can be read the wrong way. So, please don't 'read' more into this than what is objectively here.
If there is more detailed information on these frogs out there, please point me in the right direction.
I appreciate the knowledge here and will definately take it to heart before doing anything that would without question cause these frogs undo harm.

well, I just made my own custom Vivarium. It is 36" tall by 36" wide by 24" deep. it is actually a 5 sided glass enclosure but those are the three largest dimensions.

My plan is to keep 4 Pumilio (strawberry) and a pair of Auratus in the enclosure. along with two Red eye tree frogs.

The viv. is set up in such a way that the frogs will be able to utilize different areas and also be able to avoid constant line of sight. this allows the two pair of pumilio to occupy the upper layer of roots and bromeliades and have seperate territories. while the auratus can occupy the lower levels.
one issue i realize i need to watch, is to make sure there is enough food throughout the whole viv. this can be somewhat mannaged by putting slices of fruit in various places throughout the enclosure to ensure that the fruit flies occupy multiple places.

now I am only mixing three types of frog, and only two of them are dart frogs.
The thing these frogs all have in common, is that they all share the same habbitat in the wild. each has a slightly different niche but live under similar conditions.

so, if I were you i would research types of frogs you are interested in and find out which ones can be found living together in the same forrests. then find out specific details about the needs of each kind.

remember just because two frogs may be found in the same country does not mean they may ever come into contact with eachother. some are specific to certain mountain ranges ect.

Pumilios are found on the ground as often as in the upper reaches of a tank. My Basti pairs hunt almost exclusively on the floor of their 33 gallon hexagonal tanks, although they breed and raise the tads in the upper bromeliads. One pair essentially utilizes an entire tank. They are extremely territorial.

A rainforest habitat is not a small tank. The difference between upper and lower levels in a tank is in inches, not in many meters, so we really aren't duplicating their original habitats, just approximating humidity and temperature conditions.

Let us know how it works.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus