Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Tony, AKA thesnakeman brought up a topic on the "other" indigo forum about a scale anomaly on an eastern where the 7 & 8th upper labial scales are not striped or divided.
This got me looking at my own snakes as well as some of the pics on indigosnakes.com.
My snakes seem "normal" having the 6th scale being wedge shaped with the 5th & 7th scales meeting above it.
Some of the snakes I saw on inidgosnakes.com appeared to have the 5th scale as the wedge. What's up, are these anomalies due to inbreeding or what?

Thanks!

Eric
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If Jesus is your co-pilot, you'd better change seats!

I can't believe noone has any thoughts they'd like to share on this.
My post isn't directed at anyone nor am I trying to stir up trouble, i'm just trying to make some sense out of the escalation on these beauties & there seem to be some inconsistencies.

Eric

>>Tony, AKA thesnakeman brought up a topic on the "other" indigo forum about a scale anomaly on an eastern where the 7 & 8th upper labial scales are not striped or divided.
>>This got me looking at my own snakes as well as some of the pics on indigosnakes.com.
>>My snakes seem "normal" having the 6th scale being wedge shaped with the 5th & 7th scales meeting above it.
>>Some of the snakes I saw on inidgosnakes.com appeared to have the 5th scale as the wedge. What's up, are these anomalies due to inbreeding or what?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Eric
>>-----
>>If Jesus is your co-pilot, you'd better change seats!
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If Jesus is your co-pilot, you'd better change seats!

That last post should read "scalation" not escalation.

Eric
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If Jesus is your co-pilot, you'd better change seats!

Genetic anomaly? Photoshop gone awry?

If you place every specimen under the microscope you can always expect to find a few minor anomalies. Personally, I wouldn’t place too much emphasis upon finding such within a single specimen.

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Jeff,

It may well be nothing, but then again, perhaps there's something there to be concerned with.
It's more that one animal i'm talking about.
Look at the various snakes in the gallery @ indigosnakes.com & count the scales on the ones that have close/clear enough head shots & see for your self.

Eric
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If Jesus is your co-pilot, you'd better change seats!

I have noticed minute anomalies in over half of the D. couperiI have worked with; which includes over 40 captive adults, another 70 plus in the wild and over 200 hatchlings produced by myself and others since 1980. It has been my experience you will find some minute anomaly such as, scale count, scale placement, color difference, size difference and a host of other minute anomalies anytime you begin looking at the phenotypic differences beneath the microscope.
Keep in mind, certain population densities in the wild are probably less genetically diverse than the current captive gene pool, so various minute anomalies will begin to come to the forefront. I do not consider a small anomaly to be reason enough to start questioning the taxonomic classification of a species, nor do I subscribe to the idea that minute anomalies spell impending doom for a wild population of low to moderate density or the captive population…

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

I trust your (and others) opinions/experience. If you have seen this in the wild as well then i'm sure it's nothing to be concerned with.
I wasn't questioning the taxonomic classification as Tony had suggested, but whether or not it was a genetic problem starting to pop up due to the limited gene pool.

Eric

>>I have noticed minute anomalies in over half of the D. couperiI have worked with; which includes over 40 captive adults, another 70 plus in the wild and over 200 hatchlings produced by myself and others since 1980. It has been my experience you will find some minute anomaly such as, scale count, scale placement, color difference, size difference and a host of other minute anomalies anytime you begin looking at the phenotypic differences beneath the microscope.
>>Keep in mind, certain population densities in the wild are probably less genetically diverse than the current captive gene pool, so various minute anomalies will begin to come to the forefront. I do not consider a small anomaly to be reason enough to start questioning the taxonomic classification of a species, nor do I subscribe to the idea that minute anomalies spell impending doom for a wild population of low to moderate density or the captive population…
>>
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Jeff
>>-----
>>Jeff Snodgres
>>University of Arkansas
>>snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
>>501.603.1947
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If Jesus is your co-pilot, you'd better change seats!

Eric,

If memory serves me correctly, the photo posted was of a wild D. couperi, as I believe the individual posting it is from Florida and was indicating the coloration variances he has noticed among wild specimens in various localities.
Keep in mind, certain areas of low D. couperi population densities could very well have a more limited gene pool than the current captive population.
Good work, as very few seemed to have picked up on the anomaly from the original posting on either forum.
Also, I indicated Photoshop gone awry, as the photo appeared to have been "touched up" a bit. But than again, this could have something to do with my severely limited abilities in the art of photography...

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947