Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A photochop I did of the tank Im going to build, Any thoughts on the design?

It will be made of melamine.

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1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

With a front of 30" x 12.75" and a 2" lip you'll have very little viewing area. Once you have the glass track installed the actual window opening will only be about 10" tall, which is not very much.

You have a lot of neat features in the cage, including lights, so I think you'll want to show off what's inside.

That's just my personal preference. I think for a display cage a glass front of 14" is about a minimum.

Also, I don't know that the design maximizes the dimension of a melamine sheet. Are you building this cage to fit in an exact area or are you otherwise limited somehow? Not a huge deal but I always like to build a cage that maximized the use of material. Again, just a personal preference.

Will your light box be tall enough to house a heat lamp? The false ceiling in my cage is 7" tall and I'm very limited by what I can put inside.

And one last concern, I still think melamine has a place in reptile cage construction, but I don't think it's idea for any cage with a built in misting system.

Are you going to do something else to seal the melamine?

I have thought about the viewing area problem, but the thing is, its for my sand boa, and its always hidden anyways. So thats not much of a problem.

The heat lamp has been measured and will fit in the box I want to set in the back.

About the misting problem, I was planning on lining the inside with vinyl or sealing with something. Im not gonna put it together and throw the mister in, cuz I know it would ruin the tank.
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1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

I wanted to mention that you do not want a misting system for a Kenyan Sand Boa. The humidity requirements (or actually dehumidified requirements) are nothing like other snakes. A Kenyan will be completely healthy kept at humidity in the 20% range and unless you have a wood burning stove in the room it will reach that level on its own. (in most cases even having a water dish in the enclosure raises it above optimum levels)

I've kept Kenyans constantly for the past 8 years and tried many different housing techniques, with the most success for them being screen topped enclosures with aspen bedding. I water them 2 times a week and they always have perfect sheds as well.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

I have kept Kenyan Sand Boas but not for many years and never for long term. I never kept them at anything other than room conditions, which was often quite dry.

Plain melamine will be plenty durable for Kenyans, at least the way I kept them.

asside from the concerns of chris, i am concerned with the misting system idea.
i am assuming the misting system you plan on using has a water container and a hose with a misting nozzle. i think you will be much better off having the entier misting system outside of the cage and just run the hose and nozzle into the cage via a hole drilled the size of the hose. i think this will be benificial in preventing a disaster should something malfunction with the misting system as well as make it much easier access when needing to fill it. you would also not have to build the second box. good luck, the general idea sounds like you have a good plan about things.

>>A photochop I did of the tank Im going to build, Any thoughts on the design?
>>
>>It will be made of melamine.
>>
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>>1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
>>0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

Well, hmm.. I was figuring Id have the mister setup inside the second box, and have a tube come out of it, like you said, so just the tube would come out and mist the tank.
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1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

Sorry for the double post.

I just re-read your post, jay, and I think you have a good idea. You see, the thing is, I still havent figured out how Im going to do the mister.

I was planning on using a submersible pond pump, and run a line from it into the tank. I would have a container set in the second box, a sealed one at that, and have the tube come out and then go into the tank. I could change the water as needed, and also I could set it on a timer.

So I think I should be safe against any water issues. But I do see your point, that if there was a problem with the mister, Id be screwed. Ill make sure to think about that carefully before I build, or maybe think of another way to run the mister.
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1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

many people want to use a pump to provide pressure for a mister, but they are ususally expensive.

what i would do is get a gallon garden sprayer (the kind you pump up and spray water with the wand) and cut off the wand leaving the tube that connects to it.
purchase a garden hose timer (cost about $30 for a really nice digital one) and a misting nozzle (can be found at a hardware store or barrs.com).
then check out the plumbing section of the hardware store and rig up some reducers to connect the garden hose sprayer (tuber that the wand was attached to) to the timer. then the timer to the misting nozzle tube which is normaly 1/4". you can also get both reducers at barrs.com.
with this setup you would just have to drill a 1/4" hole for the misting nozzle tube and mount the nozzle inside the cage.
with this setup i mist three times a day for about a min. and i fill up the tank once a week. i only pump up the tank once inbetween filling.
its just another option, but it is much cheaper and easier in my opinion (unless pumping a tank is too much for you).

if you use the box like you had planned, you will have to have some sort of door so that you could refill the tank.

>>Sorry for the double post.
>>
>>I just re-read your post, jay, and I think you have a good idea. You see, the thing is, I still havent figured out how Im going to do the mister.
>>
>>I was planning on using a submersible pond pump, and run a line from it into the tank. I would have a container set in the second box, a sealed one at that, and have the tube come out and then go into the tank. I could change the water as needed, and also I could set it on a timer.
>>
>>So I think I should be safe against any water issues. But I do see your point, that if there was a problem with the mister, Id be screwed. Ill make sure to think about that carefully before I build, or maybe think of another way to run the mister.
>>-----
>>1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
>>0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

That sounds pretty cool, I was also lookin at this to make a mister: http://www.herphabitats.com/t337-humidifier.html

I was thinking I might try that, but with a smaller bottle.

Also, I had planned on the boxes in the corners having no tops. That way the lamp would set it, and the top would poke out, and I could just lift it out when needed, and the other side with the mister would be easily accesible as well.
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1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

i didnt realize you were not going to cover the top of the boxes, this would give you many more options. that simple humidifier is a good idea also and will work well without providing mist, just humid air. additionally you might want to look into using a humidifier to pump in humid air if you need to greatly increase humidity.

>>That sounds pretty cool, I was also lookin at this to make a mister: http://www.herphabitats.com/t337-humidifier.html
>>
>>I was thinking I might try that, but with a smaller bottle.
>>
>>
>>Also, I had planned on the boxes in the corners having no tops. That way the lamp would set it, and the top would poke out, and I could just lift it out when needed, and the other side with the mister would be easily accesible as well.
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>>1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
>>0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

I had that Barr's system with a garden spray. I really liked it.

I think this would be a cheaper better idea even more so if you don't care about display. You can do all that you want without damaging melamine or spending a lot of money.
Jeremy

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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

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0.1 Albino Red Tailed Boa -Coming Soon-
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2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino Red Tailed Boas
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1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
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0.1 Spouse

Sound like you have a good handle on what you want, and got great input. Melamine is rather new to me. Does anyone use formica any more? It held up good to herps, not to rat urine.
I use to get approx 20" x 30" cut out for $1.

Seems with todays biscuits and good silicones could be used for higher moisture projects. Just a thought
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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.1 MIA
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
Degus
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

I still think formica is a good choice. It comes in a variety of colors and can be had cheap if you know where to look. On the other hand, it can be very expensive if you just go pay retail.

One choice I really like is vinyl film used in the graphics industry. It's about the same thickness as the plastic layer of formica (remember, most of formica is cardboard) and is self-adhesive.

I have not used it long term in herp cages but I have since found some people who have.

About 26 cents per square foot when purchased in bulk. I'm sending some out to some trusted posters on this forum. They're ahead of my in their cage building plans. I suspect they'll really like it.

1 formica is now self-adhesive? WOW I'm old
2 I need to check out these plastic films, I have a wholesale place in Cleveland, GE Polymer I think. I can get PVCX, but thats not water proof, but I have ideas for it. Film sounds like a great product. I really hope I get a garage up this year to drag all my tools back out just to take pictures of junk I make. I'm out of practice, I'll start at junk and work up.

>>I still think formica is a good choice. It comes in a variety of colors and can be had cheap if you know where to look. On the other hand, it can be very expensive if you just go pay retail.
>>
>>One choice I really like is vinyl film used in the graphics industry. It's about the same thickness as the plastic layer of formica (remember, most of formica is cardboard) and is self-adhesive.
>>
>>I have not used it long term in herp cages but I have since found some people who have.
>>
>>About 26 cents per square foot when purchased in bulk. I'm sending some out to some trusted posters on this forum. They're ahead of my in their cage building plans. I suspect they'll really like it.
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Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. (Dale Gribble)

AOL IM Mettzilla
I forgot my password for herpzilla, and gave a bad email,, major OOPS

1.3 Bearded Dragons
6 baby female Western hognose, 3.5 adults some friend some mine,,,building breeding stock)
1 Corn snake (bloodred) 0.1 MIA
1 baby creamcycle 0.1
Degus
2.0 Dogs,
0.2 Cats,,
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

I had heard about the vinyl thing before, and I was also contemplating using that to help seal the tank.

Thank you to everyone for your responses!
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1.0 Ball Python, 50% het for Pied.
0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa

>>1 formica is now self-adhesive?

Well you may be old, but I think I mis-wrote. The vinyl film I mentioned is what's self adhesive. It is used in a very similar way to how many chondro keepers use Contact Paper to line the inside of MDF cages.

Formica is still applied with contact cement. Only change to formica is that there are some WB contact cements that allow slight repositioning of formica before it siezes up.

Vinyl film is what they use to make lettering for store fronts, put graphics on cars, etc. Next time you're at the gas pump try to peel off the number of the pump. Chances are it's made from vinyl film and chances are you won't be able to get it off.

The film is a great product. I have heard you can line the inside of a plywood box and fill it with water, assuming you caulk the edges.

BTW, the more expensive vinyl films offer no advantage over the basic 5 year calendered vinyl. The only thing the more expensive ones have is a longer resistance to UV (only important for outdoor use) and the ability to be applied over non-flat surfaces.

Why I like the vinyl film over the Contact Paper as seen at FineGTPs.com:

1) Since that site was put up Contact Paper has become thinner and a weaker adhesive is used. Regardless, vinyl film is better than the old contact paper anyways.

2) The adhesive used in vinyl film allows for a wet application. You can spray a bit of water with dish soap onto the substrate and move the vinyl film around until you get it perfect. You can also squeegee out the bubbles at this time. If you try this with CP the adhesive breaks down. This great thing about this wet application is that it allows you to apply the film to already assembled cages. Just put an oversized piece in the cage and trim it with a razor. It also allows you to laminate another piece of the top of an already complete cage if the previous surface is damaged. In theory, you could just apply a new floor every year.

3) The vinyl film comes in rolls that are long and wide enough that there is less waste over CP.

The main thing I prefer about CP is that it is not as glossy as vinyl film.

While I've not tried the vinyl film yet, I have to agree with Chris's points. I've seen how durable the film is because our graphics department at the zoo uses it a lot in signage. The vinyl has a lot of flex and give to and an amazing tear resistance. It is a good bit more glossy than contact paper. When I built a cage utilizing the contact paper [per the Greg Maxwell GTP website plans], I found the contact paper to be the most expensive part of the project and there was a ton of waste when I was done! It does give a really nice look to a finished cage, but I suspect that once you have an animal in a vinyl film covered cage the film will get plenty scuffed up and dirty which should take some of the edge off of the glossy-ness. Something else to consider too is effective placement of cage furnishings and plants could do a lot to balance out the glossy look and perhaps even cover some of it up.
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Matt Campbell

Big animals, little animals, plants - right down to the sea itself. We need them, not just for their own sake, but because all this has to be here for everybody forever. Only one thing is certain: if we are to preserve our environment and save this priceless wildlife we need much, much more knowledge.
Harry Butler from 'In the Wild With Harry Butler' 1977

I actually like the glossy look against a WELL planted cage. In a sterile/empty cage I prefer a flatter look.

The reduce waste of vinyl film is a nice feature. CP is not cheap.