Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hope Frank Retes or one of the other experts can help me. I am taking my adult male blackthroat (5ft plus, 2 1/2 years old) to the vet tomorrow (the one in Birch Run/Frankenmuth Michigan if anyone cares to comment). About a week or two ago I bathed him and noticed the end of his tail had cracked and was pink/bloody... the very tip, a spot maybe 1/8th x 1/4th of an inch. I went by the normal routine of keep him hot and keep an eye on it. Yesterday he broke out of his cage (he popped out two small screws and flipped a large cinder block off the whole over his light bulbs). He broke all 3 90w halogens and burned himself in the process. After bathing him again I could see he was in worse shape than expected. He now has 4 or 5 pirk burn marks, each a little bigger than a nickel, on his abdomen. Plus his tail has some areas that should be whitish but are pinkish.. almost like an infection is spreading into his tail (or it could be more burns). Has anyone had expirience with tail infections? Could it turn gangrenous? The vet is closed today, so I plan on taking him in the morning... but I am very worried. His behavior has changed some in that he is more fiesty (wanting out... tail whipping at me... ect) than normal.... but thats all (eats a lot and very active).
Help me please! I'm afraid this could be fatal in the long run... not many vets are varanid experts.

normal questions on husbandry:
cage: 8'x 3' x 5'h (small for him... I'm gonna work on that)
temps: range mid 70's- mid 80's
basking 130F
substrate is normal dirt
diet: mainly large rats with occasional baby chicks, quail and even scrambled chicken eggs maybe once a month... my hisser colony isn't large enough yet to start feeding him those yet.

also please give recommendations on specific antibiotics (incase the vet doesn't know). The only vet I've been to for reptiles around here didn't know jack... so this is my first time to DR. Buck. Thanks you,

I wish you could edit your posts on this forum... spelling errors and such that I didn't catch the first time.

anyway.... I need advise from people that have had experience with tail problems with their monitors. I cant get him to the vet until tomorrow... but I'm pretty sure he has an infection due to the pinkish hues to some white areas on his tail. I'm aware that this could spread and result in loss of tail and/or death. Please help.

Now to better describe his escape... the roof of his cage in the tall end (5'h) had a hole in it over the lights. This hole had been sealed improperly with a thin piece of masenite, two small screws and a large cinder block sitting on top of it (the bigger of the two standard sizes). I was out of screws at the time and just stuck a huge weight on it until I could run to the hardware... of course I forgot. I take full responcibility for his condition. It is no ones fault but my own. Now it is my responcibility to try and remedy the situation if at all possible. Again... please help.

Theres not a lot I can do to help your monitor, you are already taking the best first step, going to a vet.

With the burns, don't let the vet scrub them out and mess with them. So vets do. A healthy monitor can recover from massive burns with no help.

Not that this has to do with your monitor, but it was common to find monitors in northern and western australia with massive burns. To an extent that their tails were burned off, and the entire dorsal surface was burned to an extent their was no original skin left, and they had survived. These burns were caused by fires set in the begining of the dry, a common widespread practice. I found burn survivors from many species, including V.brevicauda, to V.panoptes. The larger monitors appear to climb trees and the fire would burn all but the very top of the tree. I guess sorta roasting the monitor as it went up as far as it could. of course I found many monitors dead from burns.

About the tail. That envolves your monitor trying to get out. Stressed monitors, lose the circulation in the small parts, tail tips and toes. Causing those parts to die. I do not know about all cases, but I do know its commonly caused by different types of stress. From a unwanted cagemate, to not having a home. Most commonly its not having a home.

Consider, monitors always(if alive) have a home burrow/crevice/hole, in fact, they normally have a series of these. This home, is their life and security. There first goal in life is to find and maintain/protect this home/s.

My goal and hopefully others understand this, is to create the illusion that cage is their home or at least one of their homes. This is why I used retes boards and deep dirt, hollor logs, etc. The dirt is not just to nest or there so you have work to do. Its there for the monitor to do what is most important for it to live. Make a home.

Of course with larger monitors its an ongoing task as normally the cage size is way to small, which means, the ability to give choices is compromised.

A monitor that is constantly trying to escape is telling you, its not accepting its cage as a home. Another expression of this stress is to simply lay there and do nothing(internalize). This stress without relief will without question cause tail atrophy.

And its simply cured, fix the condition and the monitor will cure itself in a matter of days. As you may have guessed, the combination of lack of circulation(shunting) and compromised immune system(common effect of prolonged stress) will eventually cause the death of your monitor.

Its very normal for monitors to accept their cage as a home, much like many pet birds. When they accept this, they feel their cage is their "SAFE" place, and will not leave if you open the door. Of course you leave the door open long enough, it will explore out, but will return to the cage. Specially if scared by something. Also of course, when out exploring the monitor may find something it considers a better home. Thats their life stradgy, to find a better home.

A bad way to think of this is, its kinda like a hermit crab, as they grow, they have to replace their home(shell) if not they will die. Same goes for your monitor, its an ongoing process or at least it should be. Its a bad analogy because its not very accurate. But its good because hopefully it will give you an idea of what the problem is.

Consider, albigs spend the vast majority of their lifes in their homes(underground). They feed in there, they bask in there, they LIVE in there. Cheers

Thank you much Frank. I had considered that before... because the only hide spot in his cage is a 3 ft hollow log. Plus he moves the log around so much that is itsn't a steady "home." I don't have an excuse as to why I never got around to adding more hide spaces. The vet had seen this many times before and said at the point I cought it he should heal with antibiotics and a cream. (Ducural 136mg - 1 pill per day for two days, 1/2 pill every 48 hours there after... and a tube of Silvadene cream)

I was planning to build an addition to his cage, so now I can't wait any longer. I was thinking about just adding a hide box off the basking end of his cage. I was thinking 4'x3'x2'h with a heat mat (one designed for large lizards/ tortoises) on one side. I use dirt substrate... but it is a lot of work bringing in enough for hom to burrow. Do you mix anything with your dirt? My family owns 3 acres of michigan harwood (oaks ect...) so plenty of leaf to mix in with the dirt if you think that is a good Idea. Any help designing a "home" that I can attach to the side of his cage would be great. It is my fault he is stressed, so I need to do something to help. Thanks.
-Brent

sorry, forgot to mention the the cage is all wood, so it will be easy to attach another section. Thanks.

I hope you will entertain these thoughts. I don't know what size your albig is. So I may be off. You mentioned you had an 8 foot cage. Heres what I think. I am off if you have a 7 foot albig.

You should have no problem making an 8 foot cage work. I am all for larger, but larger may not make much of a difference.

To understand what is needed is the key. I hope to help with that.

Its also important to understand, its never an all or nothing event, after all, they are in a cage. As with most things, there is degrees of good and degrees of bad. For instance, I have a pair of monitors, the male is 3 1/2 ft. the female is 3 foot, they are in a four foot trough(just for the winter) She has already laid a clutch and is now gravid again. All while in a four foot trough.

So far, they are happy/secure most of the time. I do take the male out when feeding, and just before she nests. As there is no room for him to avoid that situation. The only time she gets stressed is just before nesting. At this time, if I open the door, she wants out and actively tries to get out(only when the door is open) At all other times, if I open the door, they simply raise up and look out, without an attempt to get out. In fact, I will take the male out and place him on top the next cage to feed him. He normally grabs the mouse and dives back into his cage. If the cage had suitable nesting, the female would not attempt to leave.

You see, everything(to a point) is there, heat, burrowing, water, food, and eachother. If I allow the cage to dry out, out they come. If I go to long without feeding, out they come. If the cage is too wet, out they come, get too dirty, out they come.

So, keeping a cage right is more then hiding, and its never set, its always being adjusted.

I believe you mentioned being a biologist. Then you understand, reptiles seek specific conditions. Of course there is some variation, but not a lot, say nothing like the difference between a monitor and a tiger salamander. They look alike are built alike, but require different conditions.

Monitors, are what I call a neutral, they do not seek wet or dry, but instead a happy medium. For instance, wild reptiles seek shelters with the humidity in the 40 to 50% range. To wet, they get sick, to dry, they dehydrate. Again of course some reptiles are designed to tolerate wetter conditions and dryer conditions, for a period of time. But overall, that range is normal. Monitors are normal, they seek refuges that are in that range.

If your cage is not in that range, your monitor will seek another area. Then because it cannot get out, become highly stressed.

What I am getting at here is, the hiding areas(its home) must be within a suitable range or it will serve no purpose. Which means, all you need to provide is one suitable place for the monitor to make a home. Of course, more is better. They normally have a range of conditions, to meet different needs. But sadly one will work for a time, under normal conditions.

The point and I hope this does come to a point, is, You must first learn what the monitor needs, before giving it more of what it does not need. Of course again, once you understand what it needs, you can indeed play with all sorts of similar but different conditions. Then all of a sudden, your enclosure becomes a teaching tool, for you. Good luck

Thanks again. I think my main problem besides lack of a hide spot large enough for his whole body, is lack of humidity. There is a large tub of water (18"x12"x9"deep) but other than that the cage gets dry and dusty. I usually dump some of the water into the dirt when change it (he doesn't deficate in it)... but that isn't enough. Here is my plan. I am going to make an addition 4'x3'x3'h with enough dirt for him to burrow (there is only 6 in to a ft of dirt in most of the cage). This will be windowless with a heat panel in the ceiling. It will be sealed well for humidity. After he becomes accustomed to his new home I will begin to work on the rest of his cage. Only the floor of the cage was sealed during the original construction. I'm afraid too much humidy could cause problems with the wood if not properly sealed. Would a fast drying primer be enough to seal it? And how long should I keep my albig away from the drying cage? Recommendations? I need something without toxic fumes. I hope not to stress him out too much in the process... but I will have to keep him out of parts of his cage at a time. I also will fix the minor gaps by the door and between a couple panels to better keep in humidity.

Thanks for the help, I'm really stressed out right now too. Between getting over the flu, and my monitor situation, I have exams all this week. ...including a chemistry exam at 10 am tomorrow. I'm lucky to string together coherent thoughts at this point... so bear with me if I forget something or ramble... 50 somthing odd biology credits and counting... only 7 in chemistry. That is why I'm a year away from Ph.D. work. At least a UofM degree will look good to UofA.

-Brent

Hopfully I can learn his behavior better so I can learn to listen to what he is telling me. That is what separates you from Pianka... Thank you.