Reptile & Amphibian Forums

....the atrox is going down...

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Thats an impressive snake ! You mentioned that Lamps dont have overlapping ranges with Clelia. What is their range ? I thought they were found in central america and central america is a hotspot for Lamps (Triangulum). Also what did you find out in regards to Kings and venom resistance to Clelia ? I know you mentioned you didnt wanna post your data but come on dont be a wuss lol. I looked at Doug Taylors info on Clelia clelia and saw your pics of hatchling Cal Kings being eaten but there was a considerable size difference. Did you try your experiment with a same sized getula ? Ive heard Black Milsk will eat snakes in the wild and they are found in Costa Rica and Panama. Have you tried them against a Clelia ? Im open to the fact that the Clelia may be the superior predator but I would like to see some proof or at least more anecdotal data.

Keith

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Great picture! Thanks for posting that!

these snakes are constrictors...yes,rear fanged-but to call them venomous is just misleading....apparently their venom has little effect on other snakes,let alone humans.

Gonna have to say, no.

Clelia are venomous. I've seen data from several feeding trials by different people, I know 2 people that breed them, and their venom is quite potent.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.freewebs.com/badyear2005

well first let me say,great pic above at the opening of this thread...these are very interesting snakes...all my literature cites them as rear fangedwith a toxicity basically harmless to man,and even to snakes...all photographic evidence i've seen showed them constricting their prey,and doing so with vigor...being rear-fanged,they are less well-understood than say your typical north american colubrid or crotalid-sort of 'dumped' in that 'miscellaneous bin'...i think we can agree on that...i am curious to hear what happened in the incident you witnessed,herperhelmz.

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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.freewebs.com/badyear2005

death to...what?a frog? a medium sized snake?a lab mouse?a 250 lb human?

A snake practicly the same size as the Clelia itself.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
www.freewebs.com/badyear2005

I know of at least one moderate envenomation in a human by a rustica and I have seen first hand what effect the venom has on another snake and like I mentioned before, the effects are very similar to Micrurus. I have kept both and I would no more want to take a bite from a Clelia of ANY species than from a Coral. There is no doubt they should be considered venomous, and as far as anyone knows the venom could be toxic enough to cause serious consequences in a human, the rustica effects were frightening to say the least. Oh and as a side note Pseudechis are excellent constrictors as well and employ the tactic with regularity when feeding on other snakes. I think it's very clear that they are venomous.

Horridus

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I gotta liken it to a great white shark eating a human. Just because the shark can do it I still consider the human the more intelligent and superior species.

Rattlesnakes exihibit considerable intelligence and true learning capability, not to mention myself and many others have observed family behaviours in the wild: guarding, parental care from both parents, manipulation of enviroment such as using their heads to push down grass tufts that are in the way of a potential strike while setting up an ambush, even some parental teaching of offspring.

Don't get me wrong, I love kings, indigos, and clelia, and have even witnessed "some" intelligence in indigos, but ya have to admit that compared to crotes they are all just mindless eating machines like the great white. Hail to the Cascabel, the true king of North American serpents! :.P

(just had to goad ya a little J.G.!)

...I hafta agree Rich, the crotes & other vipers are truly incredible, even their movements appear to be highly evolved.
On the Conservation area, we see probably 10 crotes per 1 of all other snakes combined.
As you know...none of this is about which is tougher or better...its all merely glimpses @ what might be happening in nature...
You wanna see a tough guy..check out my crazy buddy...

The pit-vipers are amazing and terribly interesting snakes. No other group has colonized the American West as well. But the rats and kings are a very cool group too and do very well throughout N.A. Where they enter the range of Clelia, however, we know who's boss, haha. Clelia simply sees any snake as a meal and makes short work of it, not much thought needed.

John, does that mursurana belong to you? I didn't know you had finally found one. Congrats if you did.

TC

...yeah I managed to snag a neonate c/b in Argentina outta Glades in 8.02, Ive done most of the experiments I wanted to with it & am actually waiting for warmer weather to send it off to a lad on the East coast.

TTYL / RxR

Cool. Maybe you can fill us in someday on what'cha learned..

TC

Haha yeah right!
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- Andy
ToothAndScale.com - herp and underwater photography

1.0 Sandfire x Yellow Bearded Dragon
0.1 Albino Black Ratsnake
0.1 California Mountain Kingsnake

To zip into forums I don't normally go and see what's written about my fav's.

Crotes smarter than indigos... nope.

Crotes smarter than mussuranas... yup.

Doug T

>>I gotta liken it to a great white shark eating a human. Just because the shark can do it I still consider the human the more intelligent and superior species.
>>
>> Rattlesnakes exihibit considerable intelligence and true learning capability, not to mention myself and many others have observed family behaviours in the wild: guarding, parental care from both parents, manipulation of enviroment such as using their heads to push down grass tufts that are in the way of a potential strike while setting up an ambush, even some parental teaching of offspring.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, I love kings, indigos, and clelia, and have even witnessed "some" intelligence in indigos, but ya have to admit that compared to crotes they are all just mindless eating machines like the great white. Hail to the Cascabel, the true king of North American serpents! :.P
>>
>> (just had to goad ya a little J.G.!)