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New Reptile article on field herping NP's....

lateralis Feb 16, 2006 05:07 PM

Interesting article but they forgot to mention this important fact (confirmed with staff from a NP): DO NOT TAKE ANY FIELD COLLECTING EQUIPMENT INTO A NATIONAL PARK, you will be cited for bringing a "trap" into a NP.
At the very least you must notify them that you have the equipage locked in the trunk.

on a side note, how many of you guys are tracking the vegetation type when you are in hte field, as related to specific target animals?
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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Replies (8)

chrish Feb 16, 2006 05:30 PM

I haven't read the article, but it is also illegal to search for wildlife with a flashlight or any sort or artificial light. I know, I got a ticket for this when looking at frogs on a roadside.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

lateralis Feb 16, 2006 07:55 PM

thats extreme, wow I would have thought it wouldnt be a problem if you were not "hunting" them but just trying to view them, that seems a bit harsh. sorry to hear that.
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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Shane_OK Feb 17, 2006 01:12 PM

I haven't read the article either, but from last Dec. 13th forward, I won't be herping a NP or NWR without good evidence that I'm a birder (=0 evidence that I'm a herper, which only sucks for hots). I'm still contemplating the photo-ops of owls and nighthawks along the road. My bird-learning-curve has been a priority.
Shane
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Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

ratsnakehaven Feb 17, 2006 06:49 AM

Michigan is a lot different from the southern states as far as the National Park system and how herpers are treated.

First, we don't have National Parks, per se, but rather National Lakeshores, Nat. Recreation Areas, and lots of National Forest. Second, there are some laws about protecting the habitat and the flora and fauna, but visitors are treated pretty amazingly.

Last June I visited the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. My first stop was the Park Headquarters where I told the staff that I was a herpetologist and I was there to photograph as many species as I could find. Not only did they say it was, ok, but they went out of their way to tell me where the best locations and habitat were and gave me maps and other advice.

Of course, there are many different plant associations and soil types, etc, and this park has some unique ones, like the very tough, sandy habitat along the lakeshore which is only colonized by the fittest of the fit. The park also includes lots of protected species, one of the reasons I was there, because they are so hard to find elsewhere. The park's main concern was that you didn't disturb the delicate balance of critical habitats.

This is a grassland along the coast adapted to the deep sands...

Here's a location of a dried up pond where amphibians were breeding weeks before...

Visitor's like to climb up and down the highest dunes...

We have a second residence south of Tucson, AZ. The Saguaro National Park, in Tucson, is very different in their attitudes and laws. I hardly ever go there because you can get stopped for just getting out of your car and looking at something. You can't have any collecting equipment and have to have a hunting license just to take photos. If you even move a protected herp off the road you could get ticketed, or worse. There aren't many, if any, areas where you can pull off the road to look around or night hunt, etc, so it's inconvenient compared to other areas where you can spend hours roaming around with lights and cameras, and whatever.

As far as vegetation and habitat, the S.N.P. is a pretty cool place, but there are other areas that have more variety as well as less protected flora and fauna. I like herping in the mountains where there are tons of microhabitats and the desert is not far away.

TC

gratefuldead Feb 17, 2006 10:18 AM

Who writes an article about what national parks to illegaly herp in? LOL...Now every park on that list is going to be on the lookout for herpers, even the ones who want to do it "legally".

Of course, one could use the defense that the writer specified that you cant collect and blah blah blah, but that is meaningless when you think about the pre-determined attitude of park officials and their overall dislike for herpers.

I always use the flora to help find new habitat. I have learned of certain grassland plants that grow in rocky areas- this helps a lot in finding herp habitat...

HaroldD Feb 17, 2006 04:05 PM

Brett and Chris are both right on their advice.
Do not even THINK about herping in a National Park. I might add, that even driving slowly on park roads at night will get you pulled over by the "red light". And on federal land a car search can be conducted without a warrant ( just like at the international border area).
National forests are an entirely different matter. They are mostly open to any kind of hunting that is allowed by state regs.
National Recreation Areas seem to each have different rules. Some follow state hunting rules, others have additional rules of their own, depending on how they were established.

Shane_OK Feb 17, 2006 04:59 PM

Hi Harold, how's the "fat chance" of getting on TNP coming along? I'm really curious!
Shane
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Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

sc_shark Feb 17, 2006 08:33 PM

So in a national park (or state park), if you see a common kingsnake (or some other non-threatened species) crossing the trail, is it illegal to pick it up, photograph it, and release it? Obviously they don't like to see visitors flipping rocks, because too many idiots don't know what they are doing and end up destroying habitat. But who is going to stop you from walking around rock piles? Who is going to cite you for walking trails at night with a flashlight? If a kid finds a toad and picks it up, is a ranger going to yell at him?

As long as you don't carry a snake hook you are fine, right? But what is to stop you from carrying a natural stick around (Steve Irwin style) that happens to be hook-shaped? They can't cite you for that right?

It seems silly to be targeting photographers and observational herpers who enjoy seeing wildlife. These are the people who care about wild places. I thought that's what national parks are all about, seeing wildlife in the wilderness.

I guess they are just trying to stop poachers, which I agree with, and a guy with a snake hook could easily be a collector.
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- Andy Gottscho
www.toothandscale.com - herp and underwater photography
andy@toothandscale.com

1.0 Sandfire x Yellow Bearded Dragon - "Irwin"
0.1 Albino Black Ratsnake - "Misty"
0.1 California Mountain Kingsnake (multifasciata) - "Bandit"

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