Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well talked to the gentleman that owns the company where I bought serenity from. A very nice man. We talked for about an hour and well it came down to, he doesnt know what I am talking about, so I am going to send him a video of it in the next few days of her shaking so bad. It also turns out that 2 out of 3 cartridges that he had his leos shipped in where damaged during the shipment and the carrier that they were in was pretty beat up and that may have caused some dramatic stress to them he said, but they all looked healthy. He promised me that it wasnt MBD because they are all put on CALCI-sand with calcium carbonate mixed into it. He also said that it cant be impaction because Cali-sand is FDA aproved and that it is the best out there. HE asked if I want to send her back to him for another or my money.

This is not what I want, I am more patient and loving than that. I told him I just want to see what he though I can do to help her out. He also said that he has never seen a leo of his do that before. He also repeatdly told me that giant mealworms (what they are givin from a month of age) are the healthiest to give them.

Ok what seems wrong with this picture you guys.

Alicia
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1 male HY(Winky), 1 Tang female(Sunshine), and 1 Tremper Albino female(Serenity)

Many MANY things seem wrong with that picture. From the whole Calci-sand mixed with Calcium Carbonate spiel to the feeding of giant mealworms (Which are hormone produced if they aren't Zoophobas) being fed to them from a month old.. A month old leopard gecko will still be on small crickets.. or small to medium mealworms...anything larger can cause regurge and other unpleasant things. Plus, from what I know, the FDA doesn't approve pet substrates......

im a little more worried now. im looking at the male i bought, and its back right leg is twisted funny. they both are walking like theyre drunk. im thinking that if its the kind of giant mealworms that have the growth hormones, they grew too fast? i dunno, i also don't know if i can call, but im going to try and get pics of the twisted leg.
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

if you have AIM, IM me at iluvblackfrancis

You can try to call him I talked to him about 6 tonight. He wants me send him a video of her shaking as she walks so he can see what I am talking about. Have they ate yet? Serenity really hasnt that much a little her or there. Im worried too. Let me know ok. I think it might be the mealworms too. Why did you want to know if Alicia was my real name? And whats yours?
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1 male HY(Winky), 1 Tang female(Sunshine), and 1 Tremper Albino female(Serenity)

i know the male has been eating, im not 100% sure about the female, pretty sure though. ive been feeding crix and reg mealies. the guy from snake broker asked if i was the person that was talking to alicia, which is why i asked, my name is anthony.
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

if you have AIM, IM me at iluvblackfrancis

I gotcha. What did he say about the whole situation?
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1 male HY(Winky), 1 Tang female(Sunshine), and 1 Tremper Albino female(Serenity)

Boy I tell ya. Do they think that people are totally ignorant. Maybe you should tell them to come onto the forum and learn something about leos. I would just not be so sure it is not MBD. Keeping them on calci-sand (which is calcium carbonate) does no real good. It does not disolve in the digestive track quick enouph to be utilized at all. Without proper dusting and suplimentaion there is going to be problems. These super sand substrates also somewhere I read in a article can actually nuetrilize the stomach acids in the leos digestive system. Now I am not saying it is bad to keep them on it besides babys becoming impacted and all the other stuff that happens with it but I will pretty much gaurantee anybody that leos get very,very little mineral value from it if any. The FDA does not regulate any of those substrates in fact nobody does that is why they can sell pet products like this and mislabel them. As far as mealies I don't know that they can really hurt your leos or such but they are probally not the best so I prefer not to use them. You should get back hold of them and let them know the full deal on their system and products that they are using. I hate it when people give someone who they think knows no better a big line like that. It is even worse if they actually believe what they are telling you. Do they have a website? I think I would not mind talking to them myself.
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Even if your on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there
22 leos,1.1 redtail boas,1.1 rainbow boas,1.1 cornsnakes, 1.0 tokay gecko,1.0 veiled cham, 5 dogs and a cat. Oh, can't forget Tater my parrolet.

www.snakebroker.com
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

if you have AIM, IM me at iluvblackfrancis

First off, let me set some things straight here.

Calci-Sand, Vita Sand and the ESU calcium sand are NOT FDA approved. The FDA does not inspect, certify or verify products made for animals. However, the Pine Laboratories calcium carbonate powder that mix with the calcium sand substrate IS FDA approved for human consumption and is actually a more pure calcium carbonate that you buy at the drug store!

The powder helps to ensure quick digestion of some calcium to minimize calcium deficiencies in my breeders. This mix has worked wonders with my animals, and they are much more productive than on other substrates. I average 14-16 eggs per female every year for my leopards with many going into the 20s. I also get over 10 eggs per year from my each of my fat-tails which is quite a high amount for them. I have used several other substrates with very mixed results.

For dusting food items I use the same Pine Labs calcium carbonate powder with Herptivite. I use the same mix in their food bowls.

For giant mealworm info please call Rainbow Mealworms (1-800-777-9676) and ask the breeder directly what the deal is with giant mealworms. They would know the best wouldn't they.

PS, don't believe everything you read. I have actually read that giant mealworms are able to eat their way out of geckos. HAHAHAHA. Just because it is published doesn't mean that it is correct.

I don't necessarily appreciate your tone and implied accusations. You should really learn to investigate before you speak. Oh, and you might try learning the hard way by EXPERIENCE.

I am sorry if I sound a little short, but I am insulted both personally and professionally. I have built my business by taking immaculate care of my animals and only selling healthy top of the line specimens. Until this I have had a great record and reputation with my customers. I always take the time to help my customers and answer any questions I can. I will spend 2 hours or more on the phone with anyone if it is a $20 or $200 dollar animal to answer any and all questions they might have.

As always, I am and will do my best to resolve this issue to everyone’s satisfaction.

calm down dude. Don't be on the defensive. Fact of the whole matter here is there are some leos that came from you showing some definate signs of MBD or something unexplainable. From the info I have seen you were just mixing it with the calci-sand (which I still see as ignorant). I have learned everything I know through the hard way also, sometimes very costly mistakes. Most caused by listening to people who don't know what they are talking about. Pine labs calcium carbonate probally is a fine product not now, nor did I ever say it was not, but the calci-sands don't do sqaut. Actually I don't really care about the matter anymore except for the fact that I would like to see these peoples leos recover from whatever has stricken them. Just because I don't have a big bussiness and a fancy smancy website does not mean I don't know what I am talking about. Everything I stated about the sands is FACT that I have read and studied. The rest I consider good perspective on the way things are. Sorry if I have insulted you in any way.
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Even if your on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there
22 leos,1.1 redtail boas,1.1 rainbow boas,1.1 cornsnakes, 1.0 tokay gecko,1.0 veiled cham, 5 dogs and a cat. Oh, can't forget Tater my parrolet.