Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Makes absolutely no sense to me. Here's why:

Heat rises. So, if say a GTP is in the cage, and tends to stay at the highest point, and it's a low-ceilinged cage, all the heat will be right up there with it. In a vertical cage, the heat would rise up, but the snake would have the option of coming down a little bit without having to be right on the ground. Hmmm....seems to me the temp gradient would be a lot more effecient and useful in a more vertical cage...but maybe that's just me.
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Female Ball possibly gravid from 66% poss het axanthic
Trio black rat snakes placed together 12/14/05

Chris LaViola
CMLReptiles
Website under construction
CMLReptiles@aol.com

That has always been my thought too. The only thig you loose is the ground coverage for "hunting". I don't see much of that, though. My guys start moving around as soon as the lights go out. They do a few inches (the small ones)drink of the leaves and then right back up on the branches.

Jeff

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21.21 Ball Python
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In a slimmer vertical cage if the chondro chooses the highest perch it will have only the warm air up high. If it chooses to drop to the lowest perch in the evenings to hunt it will only have the cooler air.
In a horizontal cage (with heat at one end) it can choose which ever perch it likes and also which ever temperature it likes. It doesn't have to choose between temperature or perch. The cages I've bought have an excellent temp gradient. On the left side (regardless of low or high perch) they can get temps around 82-83. On the right side (high or low perch) they can have warmer temps around 86 or 87.
I'm only speaking from my experience, but from what I've seen sometimes they like the left (cooler), and sometimes the right (warmer). At least they have the choice and at the same time the choice of perch (high or low) They seem to be doing GREAT in them. Just my opinion, Joe

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0.0.1 Green tree python (Wamena LT)
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0.1 100% het Albino ball python
0.1 Normal ball python
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
1.0 Albino cornsnake
0.0.1 Snow cornsnake
0.0.1 Albino Striped California King

Mine spends time both on her branch and cruising around the bottom at night. the way Greg explains it, the snakes tend to move from branch to branch in a horizontal fashion, not necessarily up and down to move. Since chondros do spend a portion of time on the floor ( occasionally they even ground themselves) he feels that the temperature should be within the proper range to accomodate them there. If you have a vertical cage, you might have 80's at the top, but only the upper 60's at the bottom. This would be too cool for your chondro to comfortably use. As stated before too, the snake that desires the highest spot to perch, would be forced to stay in the warmest zone. With horizontal gradients, they can remain at the highest spot, but just move over away from the heat source. Mine tends to perch at the back in the daytime, and up front by the heat at night.
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I get what you're saying, but those temps don't make sense to me. I would see the temps being low-mid 80's all across the top of the cage, with the bottom staying in the high 70's/low 80s near the heat source, dropping to low 70's on the opposite sides.

The more vertical housing I've used, I've used under-tank heat for. So the floor of the cage stays a nice 80-86 so it's ok when they ground themselves, with the air just inches off remaining in the upper 70's, and the top in the mid 80's. Just my opinion on it though, and figured it couldn't hurt to get others on the horizontal side. I guess it all just comes down to personal preferance.
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Female Ball possibly gravid from 66% poss het axanthic
Trio black rat snakes placed together 12/14/05

Chris LaViola
CMLReptiles
Website under construction
CMLReptiles@aol.com

The reason the temps don't make sense is because heat doesn't rise, hot air rises. In an enclosure where the heat sorce is a radient heat panel the temps will reflect the set temp at the heat source end of the enclosure. Not just near the heat source itself vertically. Horizontal gradients are easy to achieve with radient heating.

Most Chondro's choose the higher perch because in nature higher is safer. That is also why top opening cages are not recommended with these animals the get stressed having a keeper constinatly reaching in above them. This also leads to more strikes to the hand. The hobby has switched to front opening enclosures primaraly for this reason.

Enjoy
Jeremy
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow Red Tailed Boas -Coming Soon-
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Ok, that makes a lot of sense then...I think. I guess I just assumed if hot air rises, so does the heat...idk. The front opening cages is really good though and I def agree with that 100%.
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Female Ball possibly gravid from 66% poss het clown
Trio black rat snakes placed together 12/14/05

Chris LaViola
CMLReptiles
Website under construction
CMLReptiles@aol.com

Looks like someone beat me to the punch with the hot air rising comment...

I would just like to add that there are alot of people keeping animals different ways. As long as your animal is thermo regulating its self, there is really no wrong or right way. A good friend and experienced chondro breeder once told me "I don't see what all the fuss is about. Honestly i could keep these things alive and breeding in a large plastic bucket." and he's right.

Here are some examples.

Vert.
Rico Walder (www.signalherp.com)

Tubs.
Rob Worell (www.allchondros.com]

Horz.
Greg Maxwell (www.finegtps.com)

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Julian Garcia
Chondros Exquisite
Seattle,WA

I personally think the horizontal gradient is key, and your set up looks great. What are the dimensions of your enclosures? I'm planning a new one, and I'm debating over the specific measurements. Thanks a lot!

Is that one of the rolling pull the drawer out plastic containers there? Are they snug enough to keep the young in?
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3.2 Ball python (Hoss, Little Man, Adam, Helen, and the new girl who gets named when she eats)
2.2 Corn snakes (Orlando and Legolas and the newbies)
0.1 King snake (Sidhe which sounds exactly like "she"
0.0.1 GTP (Kissy the Red)
1.1 Haitian Boa (Enkil and Akasha)

And bunches of furry pets