Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have two Japenese Firebelly newts (I beleive that one is Kanto and that the other is Tamba). I have had them for probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years but would like to improve upon their habitat. Right now I have a rock that sticks a couple of inches out of the water and some fake plants along with some air stones and a heater. I have about 2 or 3 inches of water in the aquarium. I would like to place live plants and know if I need I higher water level. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks
Mike
Greater Cincinnati Herpetological Society

pothos, arrow arum, and peace lilly will grow bare root in gravel in water 4" or less. deper water would require bog plants, like pickeral rush.

Hey Mike-
Java moss is my most utilized plant in all of my sal tanks. I'm curious - you mentioned you have a Kanto C. pyrroghaster - may I ask where/how long you've had it? That race is virtually unknown in the US, with only one definite pair being kept. They were bred last year by a friend of mine, and I have some of the offspring.
~Mike

I read that as the name of the newt and not a locality origin..

The plants will depend on the amount of light that you have for the enclosure.

I would suggest Java moss, Java fern for low light tanks and in higher light tanks water sprite is always a good choice. I would be careful about using any tall plants that reach to the top of the enclosure as these may provide pathways that the newt can escape.

Ed

Ed -
Maybe, but then why would he "believe" the animals are named Kanto and Tamba if he's had them for 7 years? Yeah...I guess we'll just let him answer that one, shall we?
I also suggested Java moss, though I guess coming from you it means more, right?...and actually java fern does quite well in high-light tanks, often growing very lush, and faster, than in low-light tanks.
~Mike

>>I read that as the name of the newt and not a locality origin..

The plants will depend on the amount of light that you have for the enclosure.

I would suggest Java moss, Java fern for low light tanks and in higher light tanks water sprite is always a good choice. I would be careful about using any tall plants that reach to the top of the enclosure as these may provide pathways that the newt can escape.

Ed

snip"Maybe, but then why would he "believe" the animals are named Kanto and Tamba if he's had them for 7 years? Yeah...I guess we'll just let him answer that one, shall we?"endsnip

Fine

snip "I also suggested Java moss, though I guess coming from you it means more, right?." endsnip

No, but coming from two people as an anecdotal response lends more credibility than one person reporting a anecdotal response. If you do not want me to support you when I have the same experience then I will no longer add my comments in a manner that supports or reinforces your statements nor will I make them in a way to detract from your comments (unless we disagree at which time I will state it in a fashion that indicates that I do not agree). I will simply make my statements in a fashion so they are seperate.

snip ".and actually java fern does quite well in high-light tanks, often growing very lush, and faster, than in low-light tanks. " endsnip

Yes, it grows faster in a high light enviroment but the growth rate is still slow compared to other plants that do better in the higher light situation. This faster (but still slow) growth rate makes it much more susceptiable to algae overgrowth in high light tanks. In these situations it is often grown as an accent plant while other more fast growing plants keep the nutrients down and help to suppress the algae.

Ed

>>Yes, it grows faster in a high light enviroment but the growth rate is still slow compared to other plants that do better in the higher light situation. This faster (but still slow) growth rate makes it much more susceptiable to algae overgrowth in high light tanks. In these situations it is often grown as an accent plant while other more fast growing plants keep the nutrients down and help to suppress the algae.

Ed
Other plants, such as water sprite, often have a shorter longevity in aquaria (often becoming leggy and weak-stemmed after a prolonged period of time), at least in my experience. Also, the average home aquaria have a lighting system that is insufficient for many high-light plants, and the problem with algae and java moss is more prevalent in those minority of aquaria that have a suitable lighting system for those high-light plants, where java moss is at a disadvantage.

In any respect though, java moss grows well in both low-light and high light, warm and cold temperatures (mine has survived being exposed to temperatures of 38 F).

Another alternative (one that I should have mentioned in my original posts), in tanks with higher lighting and to keep down algae problems (something that I do in most of my tanks) is combine duckweed (or any floating species, duckweed is just more readily available and tolerates cold temps) and java moss. The duckweed is great for taking in excess nutrients as well as decreasing the light reaching the java moss, which reduces if not eliminates any problems with algae.

Mike - if you'd like any starts of java moss, I would be happy to give you a clump (as well as some duckweed, if you like) for your newts. Perhaps the next time I run into Dean I could give it to him.

Hope that helps,
~Mike

i have to ask, but do you really think that java moss and ferns will be suited for a tank with only 2-3 inches of water, i would think they would spread across the surface and take up a lot of the space in the water area, i suggested tropicals because i use them in my firebelly tank and give the tank a good look, provide shaded areas, areas to climb and hide, and don't take up much of the water space in the process. as for climbing out, firebellys are the master of this and i have never had one escape as long as the screen was on and in place. i think that the javas would work well, but only if the water level is raised to at least 4 inches.

I can easily raise the water level without a problem.

Thanks
Mike
Buckeye Herps

>>>i have to ask, but do you really think that java moss and ferns will be suited for a tank with only 2-3 inches of water, i would think they would spread across the surface and take up a lot of the space in the water area, i suggested tropicals because i use them in my firebelly tank and give the tank a good look, provide shaded areas, areas to climb and hide, and don't take up much of the water space in the process. as for climbing out, firebellys are the master of this and i have never had one escape as long as the screen was on and in place. i think that the javas would work well, but only if the water level is raised to at least 4 inches

Yes. Not only do I think it will be suited for a tank with only 2-3 inches, I know it will work. I have several tanks that are set up like this, including ones for T. cristatus, C. pyrroghaster, S. marginatus, Siren intermedia, and Mesotriton alpestris apuanus. The lack of "open space" in the water really isn't much of a concern to the animals - only to the viewer (assuming he or she cannot see the animals, which is not the case with my animals).

Tropicals, as you suggested, are fine, however the problem lies in the name: tropicals. Most caudates prefer to be kept at temperatures cooler than what most tropical plants prefer. Granted, C. pyrroghaster can tolerate warmer temperatures better than many caudates. Pothos, in my opinion, is probably the only species that I would use in an aquarium, myself. Here are some specs that might present difficulties with your other plant options:
Spathiphyllum - tropical plant. While tolerant of low-light, virtually all varieties that are commonly available get much too large for most aquaria. Also, despite people selling them as fully aquatic plants, they are not.

Arrow arum - Unfortunately you did not specify a specific genus, but many species of arrow arum require a period of winter dormancy, as well as requiring higher light conditions. Also, these species tend to get much too tall for the average aquarium - upwards of 2' or most in most species. A much better choice for an outdoor pond than an aquarium.

Pickerel Rush - (Pontederia cordata). A plant that is tolerant of a wide variety of lighting, however, it too often gets much too large for the average aquarium - 2 feet or more. Again, much better suited to an outdoor pond.

Again, in my experience the best, most long-lived and successful combination of plants for most newt species are java moss and duckweed. It does not require deep water (honestly, 2" is just fine. If you want more room, you can easily thin the java fern), is tolerant of cool temps, as well as provide many other benefits (water quality, cover, etc).

Hope that helps,
~Mike

my mistake, i was under the impression that the javas required more water for proper growth, most of the time when i see a aquarium done with them, the water is no less than six inches deep. thanks for the diff. opinion and i may use some javas the next time i redeisgn my semi-aquatic tanks.
as for the tropicals, they do come from very warm enviroments, but can tolerate much cooler temps, i use the varities i stated before, along with many others and the warmest vivarium i keep them in is about 72 degrees F, most of the tanks are only 60-65 and the plants thrive quite well.

>>>my mistake, i was under the impression that the javas required more water for proper growth, most of the time when i see a aquarium done with them, the water is no less than six inches deep. thanks for the diff. opinion and i may use some javas the next time i redeisgn my semi-aquatic tanks.
as for the tropicals, they do come from very warm enviroments, but can tolerate much cooler temps, i use the varities i stated before, along with many others and the warmest vivarium i keep them in is about 72 degrees F, most of the tanks are only 60-65 and the plants thrive quite well.

Java moss is actually becoming rather popular as a groundcover in dart frog tanks. If the humidity is high enough, it grows vey well terrestrially. I personally have a tank where the java moss isn't at all submerged.

As I stated in my other post, the tropical plants do grow best at temperatures higher than what most caudates prefer to be kept at. Considering that most of my tanks drop into the low 40s for several weeks at a time during winter, most tropicals would succumb to the cold temps. 65 is just fine. They still do get too large for most indoor, aquatic tanks though, in my opinion.
~Mike

some of the plants do grow rather large, exceeding 18" or higher, but with proper prunning this can be avoided. i have an marginal arum plant in water that i have to prune constantly to keep it below 9", but it has been planted for 2 yrs. now and looks great and stays short with the prunning. this is probaly more work and horticulture than most know, but it is possible to keep even large tropicls "dwarfed". ie. i have a diffinbachia (dubcain) that can grow over 4' tall, its been planted for 6 years, and through regular prunning i keep it 12" tall, and you would never know it was prunned weekly.
i may consider trying to plant some javas terrestrially, i have a very humid firebelly that they may work perfect in.
thanks

>>>some of the plants do grow rather large, exceeding 18" or higher, but with proper prunning this can be avoided. i have an marginal arum plant in water that i have to prune constantly to keep it below 9", but it has been planted for 2 yrs. now and looks great and stays short with the prunning. this is probaly more work and horticulture than most know, but it is possible to keep even large tropicls "dwarfed". ie. i have a diffinbachia (dubcain) that can grow over 4' tall, its been planted for 6 years, and through regular prunning i keep it 12" tall, and you would never know it was prunned weekly.
i may consider trying to plant some javas terrestrially, i have a very humid firebelly that they may work perfect in.
thanks

Yes, you can prune them. Maybe I'm lazy, but I don't consider a plant you have to prune constantly a good choice for any low-maintenance aquaria. I guess the moral of this story is that you can try just about any plant in your personal aquarium - if it works for you and you like it, great. If it doesn't try another species. I am providing a combination that has proven itself for years, from 38F-85F (with gouramis, not amphibs..), in low light and high light. Just go with whatever works for you.

Just fyi though dieffenbachia (dumb cane) is actually capable of growing much more than 4' tall (over 8') depending on the variety or species.
~Mike

No, those were the origins not the names, they have names that are so corny I am not comfortable sharing them as I may be laughed off the net.

Mike
Greater Cincinnati Herpetological Society

Mike-
Thanks for confirming my original thoughts.
~Mike

I'm not 100% sure where I got it but I have had it for somewhere between 4-6 years. Sorry I don't have many details or specifics but I will try to post some pictures of it later (my anchient digital camera permitting). And I think that it is Kanto but that is based off of photos and infomation I have found on them.
Greater Cincinnati Herpetological Society

check oout The Naturalistic Vivarium group for plant and set up idea's.

The Naturalistic Vivarium