Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ackies on the way and I was wondering how most keepers go about feeding. Going to be keeping them on topsoil/decomposed granite (if i can find any here in the north east) which will contain rocks/twigs that could pose a problem if swallowed. Do keepers regularly feed them in a seperate container or are impactions from substrate ingestion not that big of a problem?
I just picture them running around gobbling up crickets/roaches along with other potentially hazardous objects.

I DID try sifting the topsoil for my blackthroat and the enclosure still had substantial amounts of large rocks/twigs what have you.

paraphrased from FR, properly kept, monitors could digest doorknobs if they had to.

apply that to your situation, assuming you keep your animals properly, digesting substrate should never be a problem. feeding them outside the cage would be straight up goofy.
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

ahh the wisdom from the king...thanks man

side note* : when i said outside the cage i only meant put them in a large "feeding bin" which i used when my black throat was young to keep track of how much he was eating.

i am no king, in fact i continue to try and increase my monitor knowledge each season, i still have a long ways to go.

i suppose the closest the monitor world has to an authoritative reference would be Frank Retes, and i am sure he would LOVE to be called King Frank. not. : )

we track rodent consumption and insect consumption in the cage, you still shouldn't need an outside tub. if you can't track insect feeders, try using roaches in a feeding bowl, so that you can quickly and visually assess appetite. and never feed much more than the animal will eat in one sitting.

king. ha! : )
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

My reign as king is normally unusually short. You feel like a king when you have a great success, then its over in a few days and you start all over.

About doorknobs. Instead of using that, maybe we may ask who seperates all the millions of wild natural monitors into a seperate feeding bin. You know, so they will not accidently consume some of the stuff they live on 24/7, 365, for their entire life.

It appears to me, that this attention to detail, you know, you feel you must know what they ate, is based on lack of experience. I know, I know, that same old thing. But the truth is, a monitor that has eaten is fat, if they don't eat, their skinny. You really do not have to see them eat. IF this sounds so very basic and simple, its because it is.

If their are health concerns, seeing them drink is a million times more important.

I think the problem is faith. New keepers have no faith in monitors, and only have faith in something they read. Hmmmmmmmmmm how wrong is that?

I do not know or understand what compells people to impact their captives because of reasons of lack of knowledge. A simple example is, you may or may not have a reluctant feeder, so you scare the crap out of it, and move it somewhere its unsure of, just to make sure its eating? You now see why I use the word, impact. As in negative impact. Your causing more harm then good.

By far the best approach is to create a proper setup, and let the new captive become adjusted to and gain trust in it. To move any new animal back and forth is not healthy and compromises success. Once an individual has gained trust in its cage(calls it home) Then moving for particular reasons is often good for that individual. Monitors are naturally very very very curious. They simply love new things, heck they seem to love getting scare. Kinda like humans and halloween. But the key is, they need to have a strong base first. And a strong base to retreat too.

Lastly, impaction is not based on what they consume, in most cases. Its based on horrible husbandry, dehydration, bad temps and multible combinations of both.

To a beginer, temps and humidity are something you read. To a monitor its a condition. Its a condition that allows them to function. Cheers Roybn, nice to have you around more.

hey boss thx for info. yea was i having a "huge" problem? no. yes i let my monitors just eat in the cage and try to use my common sense as much as possible. just in previous experience my blackthroat really liked to drag is food along the ground and in doing so consumed a regular amount of substrate. Common sense says that COULD pose a problem and i might as well ask if the experts practice the same feeding method. Yes, they do just fine in the wild but i didnt pay good money for those, lol.

thx again for all the input, i honestly didnt even expect to get any responses at all, let alone responses from the monitor authorities.

phantom poo, out

I do not worry about them ingesting substrate. And normally I do not move them out of their cages to feed. I sometimes move(angrily) overaggressive males out of a group feeding situation. But only at the request of its cagemates. hahahahahahahaha I do have many males that are gentlemen and do not require that.(only with larger species)

Also, you paying has nothing to do with it. And right there is the problem. Whether you paid $32000 for a small group(i have) or its a rescue monitor from the shelter, or its wild in nature, makes no difference. Their abilities are the same. Its some sort of human quirk, the need to mess with the animals. It also seems, the less you actually know about them, the more you want to mess with them. Including PHD monitor experts and other longterm keepers.

In my post above, I hoped to offer a mental picture. That picture was of a naive keeper manipulating a monitor(possible reluctant feeder) The keeper has no "real" idea why he/she is doing, only hoping it helps. That keeper does not understand, that moving that individual monitor(must me already stressed or it would eat your hand off) is only adding more stress and most likely impeding progress. I as an experienced keeper, can only ask, WHY?

I do not think its about ingesting substrate either, I think its an excuse to mess with the poor animal. Inexperienced keepers can come up with any sort of excuse to interfere with their charges. Normally the result is bad and the keeper blames others, again with all sort of made up excuses. Without question, if an animal is in your cage, its your fault. PERIOD

In this, I would think Roybn(not the fault part) is far more experienced then I, for a long period, his job was to take wild caught imports, pick out the nice ones, adapt and adjust them to captivity and sell them as wonderful healthy captives. In that he is an authority and did a great job.

If I have a questionable individual reptile(any stinking kind) I set it up, best as I know how, offer sustinance and leave it the heck alone. I know that does not sound all that experienced, but it is. After its healthy and adjusted, then I can play and mess with them.

The truth is, varanids feed, up to and including on their death bed. They are not like some snakes and do not feed. Oh that is unless your conditions are so far from what they understand.(same reason as snakes) Monitors are just much harder to get to that point.

Of course, there are imports that people pay money(not much) for, that are already dead. But monitors are so tuff, they still appear alive when you bought it. You do understand, that 99% of those farm produced imports are STILL going to die in the first year. I wonder why?

I am not sure about being any sort of authority, I am a reptile keeper, you know, a real one. I do not think there is any denying that. I have kept reptiles for such a long time. As in, I have bred reptiles, of all sorts, each and every year since 1964. I have had varanid eggs in the incubator, continiously without a break since 1991.(I wonder if they will ever hatch, hahahahaha)I am not sure what that makes me, that can be said on this forum anyway, but yes, a reptile keeper. I also do not want to be called a varaphile or monitor guy. As I do not like or agree with many of those types. I do not want to be associated with them in anyway. I treat monitors, as I would any reptile(give them choices) I think Robyn has found out that the approach I and he took with monitors, works really well, in fact, much better with other types. You see, I developed my approach with other types.

With that in mind, I may be an authority on the maintenance of incubators. Cheers