Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is it with people calling a 500g male an adult? That is far from an adult snake. Almost everone of my 05 animals is over 500 easily. Just because an animal is producing sperm does not make it an adult nor does it mean the animal is going to breed. When people come on here and ask "Why isn't my 540g male spider breeding?" the reason is because these other breeders/jobbers are giving ton's of false information to people just getting into the hobby. I personally have never had a male that small breed nor will I ever try to breed one. People wonder why there are soooo many problems with breeding these simple animals to breed, well that's the problem. I am sure that there are people that have had great success with these sub-yearling males but is it a responsible business tactic to be telling prospective buyers that every 500g male that has sperm plugs will breed? I don't think so. Ok that's my rant for the day.

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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I agree, I don't consider 500g to be an adult. My het pied who is an '04 was only 480g in Oct when I started cooling him and although he finally started eating after I introduced him to a girl he only started actually breeding 3 weeks ago and is now 700g empty. I wouldn't have paired him up though if he hadn't been over a year.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

I have an male albino that bred five females before he was a year old,one died egg bound the other four laid a total 20 eggs and all of them hatched.Males can be brought up to breeding size in less than a year.Time will tell if it is hurting the males,but I dont think so.Terry

Again yes they can breed at under a year but that doesn't make them an adult. Humans can breed at 12 yrs of age does that make them adults a dog is still a puppy at 6 months but they can breed at that age too. I wouldn't be calling a snake an adult until it is over 1 yr of age until then it is a juvenile.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

I very much agree with your statement. No they are not adults at 5 months i feel that age determines age not size, some animals grow quickly some grow slow. If you have 2 animals from the same clutch and one is 800 grams in 8 months and the other is 400 grams that dosent make one an adult. I agree they should be at least a year- 2 years to be considered an adult. But yes they can breed. In the wild a male will breed as soon as he can figure out how too, it dosent matter how big he is, if he can breed he will, so i dont feel breeding them at a young age can hurt the animal at all. But breeders can not and should not guarentee or claim that a male will breed at 500 grams, its up to that particular male. Some are more mature then others. I have had spiders breed at 400 grams, i have a friend that breed his pastel at 250 grams and got a good clutch. I know of animals that are 800 grams and 2 years old with sperm that dont want to breed, and i also have some late bloomers that wont breed all season and kick in at the last 2 weks. Every animal is different and they will all act differently, no one can predict what it is that one particular animal will do, knowing that it has happened in the past. If you want the honest truth dont plan on getting a good clutch from a male till he is at least 1 - 2years of age. Try before then? sure go for it, im not saying it dosent happen, i try all my males at 400 grams to give them the chance and i have had good sucsess with them. Want a guarentee? They will breed by the time there 10 lol..Dont count on other peoples sucsess.
Sorry so long.
Kim

It is the persons own fault for rushing into a new hobby full steam and trying to skip the learning curve. Most good breeders have years of experience and not just months of reading. I personally get sick of people who ask what the smallest possible breeding size is. Many people obviously have never raised a snake to a full mature size or they would know what a mature adult looks like.

Attention everyone: Breeding is for advanced keepers, you are not going to make millions breeding snakes, if you are not doing it because you like it you are wasting your own time. GET A JOB.

First off, I agree, do plenty of research before making any purchase. That goes for a Lesser or a normal. My comment was aimed at those people that have been in the hobby/business for several years that intentionally mislead newbies to believe that the 500g male is an adult and all you have to do is put it with a female and you will, not might, have several thousand dollars worth of babies. There is alot more to it than that. Most of the people on this forum know that a male can breed at those weights but it's definately not the norm. We also know that those marketing ploy's are just that, ploy's. If we don't get new people into this hobby by honestly representing what is for sell this "market" is going to dry up quicker than the Sahara.

And by the way, if you comment was aimed at me about leave the breeding to the advanced keepers. I have been in this hobby for over 15 years, this rant isn't because I've been burnt, it's in the hope that others won't be.
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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I was just adding my own little part. I am just tired of the new wave of keepers who think because you keep reptiles you have to breed them, or that you can make easy money on them.

Can you imagine if everyone who had a dog felt the same way?

Breeding can be life threatning to the animal, especially at a young age. And I feel that those who haven't even raised a snake to full size are not in anyway ready to breed reptiles.

Personally I miss the old days where you breed snakes for fun and to trade for species you did not have but wanted. The days when a morph was only worth a few normals and a can of pop.

Those were the days weren't they. I remember the first snakes I bred, melanistic eastern hognose. I produced 3 clutches that year and was super stoked. Hatched out 52 of 54 eggs and traded all the babies for various corns, kings and a few venomous. Now-a-days if the snakes aren't worth $5000 nobody cares what you hatched. The future is bleak for the kid who loves snakes and wants to breed and trade up for some cooler animals.
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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!